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Yes! I'm going to step out on a limb and be a bit controversial here. ;) For the fun of it, but I'm serious, too. Part of this all stems from a review that I wrote on VersaFine ink for my blog. It also stems in part from the continual weariness I've always had of using StazOn to watercolor with. Something about it has always struck me as wrong...
So, to build my case I'd like to start with Tsukineko's own description of StazOn:
Quote:
StazOn is our only solvent-based inkpad, designed for decorating non-porous surfaces such as glass, metal, shrink plastic, cellophane, aluminum foil, leather and acrylic.
Notice that "paper" is missing from the list? ;)
I tried to look for an easy answer to "Just what is a solvent ink?" If it's the same type of thing in the world of printer ink, then that would mean that it's "not made with water." I've always known that StazOn was a powerful ink. I think that's why a lot of stampers started experimenting with it when they found their Basic Black ink pads would run on them (which is something else I tested out on my blog and found no warrant for believing! My Basic Black has never run on me, unless I was using cheap cardstock). Looking for a new alternative to something that's not working for you is great! But I think we've picked the wrong product here...
Here is a list of reasons why I think StazOn is NOT for watercoloring:
It's simply not designed for it! It's made for the types of surfaces listed above.
It has a strong smell. That makes me wonder just what the heck they need to put in it... and also if it's good for me to breathe!
It requires a special cleaner. That's a bit of a pain and an added expenese.
It's permanent, but if you were to drop your stamp... eek!
Not to fear, however--there is another ink made by the same company that's perfect for watercoloring. And it comes in many colors. It's name?
Here is a list of the reasons why I think VersaFine is PERFECT for watercoloring:
It's designed for it! Says so right on the package...
No scary smell.
It's oil based. You can clean it up with water!
It's permanent. But "permanent" as in "permanent on your paper" not "permanent on your wooden desk."
And here is how the two are alike:
Just like StazOn, VersaFine will give you extremely fine detail.
Just like StazOn, VersaFine will not bleed.
Just like StazOn, VersaFine will dry instantly.
Just like StazOn, VersaFine is available in 10 colors (like black, gray and brown!).
So, now that you know this, WHY would you choose StazOn ink to watercolor with? I don't think you should. ;) Instead, fall in love with VersaFine with me. You won't regret it!
Happy stamping! :mrgreen:
__________________ Nicole "I am a girl of many moods...all of which require chocolate."
one big reason for me....SU! does not carry Versafine so I can't demo it.....
but they do carry Stazon...so that is what I can use to demo...
Hmm. I never thought about that as the reason why so many people use it.
Still, I did do a comparison between Basic Black and StazOn on Whisper White and I found very little difference between the two... and NO bleeding, even with a ton of water. There are some snapshots at my Flickr account here: http://www.flickr.com/photos/44825514@N00/375635772/
__________________ Nicole "I am a girl of many moods...all of which require chocolate."
So, now that you know this, WHY would you choose StazOn ink to watercolor with? I don't think you should. Instead, fall in love with VersaFine with me. You won't regret it!
Like Britta, I too have used StazOn for watercoloring w/ no adverse effects (except that I have noticed that sometimes the Timber Brown DOES bleed w/ a blender pen). However, I do have a Black Versafine pad that I rarely use...so, I am definately going to try it for watercoloring. I didn't realize that the Versafine would work for this...guess I should have read the package, huh?
Thanks so much for the info...it will be nice not to have to use so much of the high powered cleaner everytime I want to watercolor.
I'm also guessing that the reason a lot of people are using stazon, is because they are not familiar w/versafine or have heard of it before. I know that I had not heard of it until reading about it on the Internet. Thanks for the info, though. I didn't realize there was another product for watercoloring like this out there.
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Wow thanks for the info. You're not the only one that I've heard talk about versafine in the last few days. I don't mind the smell of Stazon, but there is a warning not to inhale the odors. Ya gotta wonder what's in it?
__________________ Heather
Mama to 3 boys! 8yo, 6yo and 5yo!! Stop saying "I can't". You can. You just chose not to.
I read your review on your blog the other day and then happened to be in JoAnn's and almost bought the Black Versafine. . .until I decided to wait till I could go home to get a coupon :-) You definitely sold me on it and I want to try it even though I'm not completely dissatisfied with Stazon.
__________________ Kathy
Proud Mama to Mason 4/3/99, Miles 5/25/02, and Maya 8/26/04
I'm also guessing that the reason a lot of people are using stazon, is because they are not familiar w/versafine or have heard of it before. I know that I had not heard of it until reading about it on the Internet. Thanks for the info, though. I didn't realize there was another product for watercoloring like this out there.
Well, I'm here to spread the word! ;) LOL! Because, yes, it's THAT awesome. :mrgreen:
__________________ Nicole "I am a girl of many moods...all of which require chocolate."
I have had the classic bleed on watercolor paper, but not on the ultrasmooth. So I do use stazon....will try the other sometime. I also just found out that the ultra clean spray that you can get from stamping freak.com, will totally take off the stazon! I just tried it on a set that I haven't used since last summer and it is now brand new looking!!
I LOVE my VersaFine inks!!! I use both the black and the vintage sepia for watercoloring -- great coverage, true to their color, easy clean-up. I totally agree with ya Nicole -- I MUCH prefer VersaFine to Staz-on for watercoloring!
I haven't touched my Basic Black pad for watercoloring since I bought my Versafine (back in December, I think)! I give it a few seconds to dry (maybe 3) before I start watercoloring, but I do use Geogia Pacifc white cs instead of Whisper white.
The only thing that has made Versafine smear for me was the Gamsol Magic technique. I have to go back to my Basic Black for that. I think it's because odorless mineral spirits are for breaking down oils, and as the post above mentioned, Versafine is oil based.
Isn't it funny how we all have such strong opinions on black ink? My position is -- whatever works for YOU is best.
I think SU's Basic Black is horrible -- a purplish black that definitely runs when I watercolor with it!! Staz on is fine, but my all time favorite is my Black Memories ink pad by Stewart Superior. I bought it 5 years ago and have reinked it once. It provides a crisp image that is totally waterproof.
i just got a Pallette Black noir ink pad, but it is still in the wrapper!!
__________________ Dear Paperlicious is my blog...with a series on how I'm learning to improve my cardmaking by studying others.
I found out on my first attempt that StazOn was not for watercoloring.
In addition to Versafine, another great ink to use when watercoloring are the Archival Inks by Ranger.They are odor free and clean up is easy with a spritz of diluted Simple Green.
Info directly from the package: Archival Inks are manufactured with fade resistant dyes in a non-toxic, acid free, waterproof system. They won't deteriorate paper or photos and they won't bleed whtn painted over with watercolors or water based markers.
I have a VersaFine Black Onyx ink pad. I love the deep black crisp color, but ...although it says it is a fast drying pigment ink, it is not that fast drying on all papers. On SU Whisper White it take quite some time to dry. I have messed up more cards than I care to admit because I stuck my big fingers over it before it was dry. I have not watercolored with it because of it's slower than Staz-on drying time. I will have to try it out. Thanks for sharing your insight on Versafine for watercoloring.
__________________ Charlee
My SU website - http://charleeg.stampinup.net
Live in the moment and make it so beautiful it's worth remembering.
I agree with Charlee it doesn't really dry that fast on WW. I have to wait 15-20 minutes usually for it to dry if my kitty is running around on the table and I have a bunch out it can be trouble. That said it's a wonderfully deep rich black and I use it fairly often because of that.
I like it for all reasons above, AND it works very, very well with the clear acrylic stamps. I like to leave it out on my table when I'm working, and that way if I am mixing stamps, between rubber and clear, I don't ever have to change inks.
I also have a black Memories ink pad that I got on clearance at Big Lots when I first started all this about a year ago. I didn't really know what I was buying, but it was on sale, so I got it. It has also been one of my favorite black inks.
__________________ Bugga in OK
"Be kind whenever possible. It is always possible." Dalai Lama
I don't mind the smell of Stazon, but there is a warning not to inhale the odors. Ya gotta wonder what's in it?
I couldn't find an ingredient listing for Stazon, other than that it is "solvent-based." Based on my practical experience working with organic solvents and from reading of Hazardous Material Data Safety sheets for those solvents, there is not a lot to be concerned about unless you are sensitive to solvent fumes. Stazon ink would contain some kind of fast-evaporating organic solvent, the same way rubbing alcohol, perfumes, or nail polish evaporates quickly.
While these chemicals do have potential health risks and require safety gear and equipment when used in industrial settings, under the low quantities, reasonable ventilation, and normal stamping conditions we would use Stazon pads in, there is no reason to fear. Seriously, in my experience there are more health effects associated with perfumes and their misuse than from Stazon.
Thanks for the review....
I haven't used versafine, but I plan on getting it soon. (due to my recent break down in purchasing of a new set of papertrey stamps;) I like my staz on just fine, never really had a problem with it. I have had my basic black bleed on my ww plenty, and will not use it to watercolor with. I think I have always used staz on because it is in the SU catty, and I am supposed to be using SU products when I demo.
All good info though, and I love how much people are willing to share their findings with common used products!!:-D
Thanks for comparing them for us!. I have used the Versa fine inks before at my LSS for classes. Yes I like them, But haven't purchased of them. I used to use The Adirondack ink in Pitch Black, Now I used the Palette Noir inks and Palette inks in General. This is what TAC sells and since I demo for them I need to use them when I do workshops. I have used StaZon inks for Watercoloring and haven't had any problems. I really don't like the smell, Only because I don't like Almonds. Again Thanks!
Oh Nicole...you know how I feel about versafine and it's the only black ink that I use and LOVE it! Stazon has since been replaced by VersFine and I never use my SU black either....it works for everything and it is crisp and dark and smoooooth. Try it girls...you'll like it. Maybe SU will carry it soon....then the demos could sell it too....hmmmmm.
I was under the impression that Versafine was not a rich, deep black. I like my black to be like black India ink.
In reality, Versafine is the blackest black I have ever used and unlike Stazon it isn't gooshy. The lines stay clean and separated even on very finely detailed stamps like the HouseMouse images. It's also much easier to clean off the stamp - no need for special cleaner.
Thanks so much Nicole for going out on a limb. I agree about Stazon and it's smell (solvent ink is NOT good for you). I volunteer at Duke teaching art. Stazon is not something I would ever walk into the hospital with but I feel very comfortable bringing VerseFine. I can only hope that SU will pay attention to this wonderful product as they are always working on bringing us the best!
I use StazOn for watercoloring and have had no problems but since I have practically every black out there except Versafine, I think I will buy a pad. I had posted several months ago about favorite black ink pads because I had heard raves about Versafine, however there were several posts about the Versafine smearing issue if you don't heat set it.
Back to the op --
Quote:
webseitler
Notice that "paper" is missing from the list?
I may be weird, but I *like* the smell of Staz-on. Just like almonds. :rolleyes:[/QUOTE]
I agree with Beth, I like the smell, but I'm kind of a "smeller" of things! My stamping mentor and neighbor uses Versafine and won't use anything else. I had picked up Staz On because I wasn't satisfied with SU Basic Black. I haven't had any problems with it so far. Of course, I used my coupon and picked up the Versafine while at JoAnn's ($4.50).:-D
I also use Palette inks, and Versafine. Kinda whatever is handy at the moment. They all work well.
Me too, Jeanne. I really use Stazon for almost everything. I realized that tonight. I uploaded six new cards to my gallery and all but one said Stazon-black ink. LOL Creature of habit, I guess. But, I'm always up for something new, so maybe i'll try the Versafine next!
Gina K.
__________________ Be polite to those who are rude to you. Not because they are nice, but because you are.
Owner- Gina K. Designs
I am not a gal who wants to buy something when I already have a comparable product on my shelf that does the same thing-basically I am cheap that way, LOL. There are lots of items on the market that may be different than the ones I already have, but since I do not have an issue with StazOn I will probably stick with what is here already. 
