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click on the flower picture where it says dies, dies, dies. that will bring you into the store
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I did, got the usual" appreciateyou taking the time to voice your concerns. I have passed your thoughts alongto the appropriate departments."
I got the same response, but that's okay. SU need to see the volume of people who are upset. I've offered SU a suggestion of offering Dave a contract to make dies for retired sets only and let Sizzix make them for current stamp sets. If enough of us speak out to SU, there is a better chance they will listen to us. For anyone reading this, contact SU and voice your opinion. They NEED to hear it....hear us.
I'm probably the only one here that finds it ok, that they shut him down!
I know we all talk about copyrights. and SU was protecting their stamp images.
Dave was using SU images to create his own dies to make a profit off of.
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They way I look at it. If Stampin" Up! was looking to create Dies for all of their stamp set's. They would have done so by now! But they aren't looking into to do so.
I got the same response, but that's okay. SU need to see the volume of people who are upset. I've offered SU a suggestion of offering Dave a contract to make dies for retired sets only and let Sizzix make them for current stamp sets. If enough of us speak out to SU, there is a better chance they will listen to us. For anyone reading this, contact SU and voice your opinion. They NEED to hear it....hear us.
I think that's a wonderful idea! Good for you for thinking of it. I will certainly voice my opinion (and have before) about Dave and his fantastic dies!
I'm probably the only one here that finds it ok, that they shut him down!
I know we all talk about copyrights. and SU was protecting their stamp images.
Dave was using SU images to create his own dies to make a profit off of.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
They way I look at it. If Stampin" Up! was looking to create Dies for all of their stamp set's. They would have done so by now! But they aren't looking into to do so.
There was a recent Supreme Courtdecision, that addressed the issue of how far a Patent holder of product can go in dictating your ownership rights when you own the product. It specifically addressed ink cartridges and that the patent owner couldn't dictate how the end user (owner) used the product. Here is the article:
When I read the issues raised in the article, I could see some shady areas in how SU "dictates" our use of their product after we buy it (rules on having their name/logo appear in any handmade product you make using their images, etc.). I think the case could be made by Dave that he is using a product he bought legally and making something that makes the product more useable for his potential customers.
Perhaps SU doesn't have a TOTAL right to all that they claim they do. It might be a matter of a deeper pocket book and lawyers that know how to intimate a small business man with threats of lawsuits....
Not trying to throw flame on the fire, just adding another perspective to the discussion.
There was a recent Supreme Courtdecision, that addressed the issue of how far a Patent holder of product can go in dictating your ownership rights when you own the product. It specifically addressed ink cartridges and that the patent owner couldn't dictate how the end user (owner) used the product. Here is the article:
When I read the issues raised in the article, I could see some shady areas in how SU "dictates" our use of their product after we buy it (rules on having their name/logo appear in any handmade product you make using their images, etc.). I think the case could be made by Dave that he is using a product he bought legally and making something that makes the product more useable for his potential customers.
Perhaps SU doesn't have a TOTAL right to all that they claim they do. It might be a matter of a deeper pocket book and lawyers that know how to intimate a small business man with threats of lawsuits....
Not trying to throw flame on the fire, just adding another perspective to the discussion.
All the more reason to speak up to SU. There is power in the people, numbers speak volumes, especially to those with deep pockets. Dave seems undeterred with the lawsuit threats. He's told me so. Let's pray he had a good lawyer who can see the gray areas.
There was talk that the patent was not breached because of the space he left around the image. But then Im not sure to the validity of that.
All the more reason to speak up to SU. There is power in the people, numbers speak volumes, especially to those with deep pockets. Dave seems undeterred with the lawsuit threats. He's told me so. Let's pray he had a good lawyer who can see the gray areas.
There was talk that the patent was not breached because of the space he left around the image. But then Im not sure to the validity of that.
I am heartened to hear your take on the issue. I have never had personal contact with Dave, just purchased dies from him, so I don't know how to share this info about the Supreme Court decision. Would you be willing to share the link to the article with him? It could prove to be valuable information to him, if he is not already aware of it.
As an aside, I checked Dave's site last night and I see he has several new dies available. One of the dies is for a cute 3-d pop up box with optional lace detailing for decoration. Very fun!
I'm probably the only one here that finds it ok, that they shut him down!
I know we all talk about copyrights. and SU was protecting their stamp images.
Dave was using SU images to create his own dies to make a profit off of.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
They way I look at it. If Stampin" Up! was looking to create Dies for all of their stamp set's. They would have done so by now! But they aren't looking into to do so.
A lot of people were buying dies that wouldn't have gotten if Dave didn't make dies for them. If anything Dave helped SU sell more stamp sets than they otherwise would have. I know I bought a few stamp sets that I wouldn't have gotten if I couldn't hAve purchased the dies Dave made for them.
There was a recent Supreme Courtdecision, that addressed the issue of how far a Patent holder of product can go in dictating your ownership rights when you own the product. It specifically addressed ink cartridges and that the patent owner couldn't dictate how the end user (owner) used the product. Here is the article:
When I read the issues raised in the article, I could see some shady areas in how SU "dictates" our use of their product after we buy it (rules on having their name/logo appear in any handmade product you make using their images, etc.). I think the case could be made by Dave that he is using a product he bought legally and making something that makes the product more useable for his potential customers.
Perhaps SU doesn't have a TOTAL right to all that they claim they do. It might be a matter of a deeper pocket book and lawyers that know how to intimate a small business man with threats of lawsuits....
Not trying to throw flame on the fire, just adding another perspective to the discussion.
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We all have opinions.
This is found on the SU website.
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I was looking through the catalogue on Dave's site and I noticed a die that I thought looked familiar and checked through my own dies and sure enough I have one that I bought on e bay from one of the Chinese suppliers which is absolutely identical to one on Dave's shop.
Here is the one I bought from the auction site (not from this particular seller) which cost just over a $1 with free shipping
I was looking through the catalogue on Dave's site and I noticed a die that I thought looked familiar and checked through my own dies and sure enough I have one that I bought on e bay from one of the Chinese suppliers which is absolutely identical to one on Dave's shop.
Here is the one I bought from the auction site (not from this particular seller) which cost just over a $1 with free shipping
Yes, I discovered the same thing a few months ago. Other dies that he has that I have purchased from China vendors are the boy/girl facing each other holding hands, the rectangle shape winter die with pine trees, deer & snowflake, and the pair of leaf fronds, and also the new banner die set with cross-stitch.
However, I will give Dave the benefit of the doubt on these dies. Some or all may be dies that he bought from whoever designed them and the China vendors are the ones who "borrowed" the design. The reason I say this is because I recently purchased a set of China dies that matches SU Swirly Scribbles and die that is a match for a Penny Black die. So pretty much any die shape is vulnerable to being reproduced and sold without any way to effectively stop it.
This may be the real reason they are hitting Dave so hard - he is American based rather than thousands of miles away, and they have a better chance of stopping him, one guy, rather than going afterhundreds of "copy cats" in China.:-(
Yes, I discovered the same thing a few months ago. Other dies that he has that I have purchased from China vendors are the boy/girl facing each other holding hands, the rectangle shape winter die with pine trees, deer & snowflake, and the pair of leaf fronds, and also the new banner die set with cross-stitch.
However, I will give Dave the benefit of the doubt on these dies. Some or all may be dies that he bought from whoever designed them and the China vendors are the ones who "borrowed" the design. The reason I say this is because I recently purchased a set of China dies that matches SU Swirly Scribbles and die that is a match for a Penny Black die. So pretty much any die shape is vulnerable to being reproduced and sold without any way to effectively stop it.
This may be the real reason they are hitting Dave so hard - he is American based rather than thousands of miles away, and they have a better chance of stopping him, one guy, rather than going afterhundreds of "copy cats" in China.:-(
I have bought dies from China, too, that are the same as other businesses. I had exactly the same thought: these are not original designs, but copied. Maybe even taken from a company factory as over-production or out of production dies.
If you are really upset about this...boycott them till they find a work around. Dont just not buy the stamps with no matching dies....just stop buying period. I suspect most people have enough stuff to play with to hold them over. But be sure to tell them you are doing it so they understand why sales are dropping off.
If you keep buying from them-they have zero incentive to make change.
The one down side are the demos will get hurt, but if they join the call, it may help.
However....if this is just an irritant to you (shrug) then just dont buy those stamp sets affected. You can message them and tell them why.
Having said all that...it may seem that a lot of people are buying from Dave...but he might only be actually doing what? A 250K a year? 500K? Who knows? Point is, the value is probably not enough to push SU who certainly makes FAR more than that to make these dies.
From a different angle:
It also may not be doing him a service to promote him out in the open-that may be forcing SU's hand to enforce copyright. If people see a company not move on someone openly using their designs....it sends a bad signal. When he was just over on the "side" making a few dies...they could ignore it. But this site has the better part of 200K members who certainly turn around and talk to many more. Many many members here are SU people...historically the site was set up for SU people. See what I mean? We talk about all brands and products now here. That's one thing. This is different.
If you are really upset about this...boycott them till they find a work around. Dont just not buy the stamps with no matching dies....just stop buying period. I suspect most people have enough stuff to play with to hold them over. But be sure to tell them you are doing it so they understand why sales are dropping off.
If you keep buying from them-they have zero incentive to make change.
The one down side are the demos will get hurt, but if they join the call, it may help.
However....if this is just an irritant to you (shrug) then just dont buy those stamp sets affected. You can message them and tell them why.
Having said all that...it may seem that a lot of people are buying from Dave...but he might only be actually doing what? A 250K a year? 500K? Who knows? Point is, the value is probably not enough to push SU who certainly makes FAR more than that to make these dies.
From a different angle:
It also may not be doing him a service to promote him out in the open-that may be forcing SU's hand to enforce copyright. If people see a company not move on someone openly using their designs....it sends a bad signal. When he was just over on the "side" making a few dies...they could ignore it. But this site has the better part of 200K members who certainly turn around and talk to many more. Many many members here are SU people...historically the site was set up for SU people. See what I mean? We talk about all brands and products now here. That's one thing. This is different.
just my humble two cents.
I had the same thought. Boycott SU until they find a work around. I suggested they contract Dave to make dies for retired stamp sets and keep Sizzix for current items.
I received and email from him today saying "the lawsuit is still ongoing". It was about a set to match Hey Chick. Assuming SU has sued. Wish they could reach an agreement. As other have posted, that's the reason I've bought many SU sets was because of the matching dies he makes.
I received and email from him today saying "the lawsuit is still ongoing". It was about a set to match Hey Chick. Assuming SU has sued. Wish they could reach an agreement. As other have posted, that's the reason I've bought many SU sets was because of the matching dies he makes.
It would be different if he had permission to create those dies.
BUT he didn't! He created dies using copyrighted images from Stampin Up!
(There are good reasons why companies have copyright, on their products).
Hey chick was a free stamp set and wasn't available for long. Maybe SU should have had the foresight to create thinlits for that set. They didn't but Dave did. Shame on them and good on Dave. I have the dies for that set and I'm so thankful to have them. Thank you Dave!
Hey chick was a free stamp set and wasn't available for long. Maybe SU should have had the foresight to create thinlits for that set. They didn't but Dave did. Shame on them and good on Dave. I have the dies for that set and I'm so thankful to have them. Thank you Dave!
I have two sets of Dave's dies. I bought them before all the issues started. It never occurred to me that there could be a copyright infringement, but I get it now.
I agree with jeanstamping2 above. Stampin Up isn't really the bad guy. They are protecting their copyright, and their artists' work. I don't think we should hate on them just because they are a "big company". They treat their employees well, and are protecting their investment.
Would I like it if Dave were allowed to continue to make dies that match SU artwork? Definitely! But, that has been quashed, and I respect that. There are lots of rules in life that we have to live by.
I have two sets of Dave's dies. I bought them before all the issues started. It never occurred to me that there could be a copyright infringement, but I get it now.
I agree with jeanstamping2 above. Stampin Up isn't really the bad guy. They are protecting their copyright, and their artists' work. I don't think we should hate on them just because they are a "big company". They treat their employees well, and are protecting their investment.
Would I like it if Dave were allowed to continue to make dies that match SU artwork? Definitely! But, that has been quashed, and I respect that. There are lots of rules in life that we have to live by.
My issue isn't that SU is protecting their copyright, but that they pounced on this one man instead of working with him. They clearly know how we feel so instead of finding a solution, they've gone for his head. THAT is what we're upset about. I've said it before and I'll say it again, why not contract him to make dies for the retired sets and let Sizzix continue with the current stuff. That way, SU can get a cut from Dave, Dave can continue making dies and make a living and we get the dies we want. Not sure about anyone else, but that seems like a win, win, win for everyone.
Last edited by stampingyrl; 07-11-2017 at 03:07 AM..
My issue isn't that SU is protecting their copyright, but that they pounced on this one man instead of working with him. They clearly know how we feel so instead of finding a solution, they've gone for his head. THAT is what we're upset about. I've said it before and I'll say it again, why not contract him to make dies for the retired sets and let Sizzix continue with the current stuff. That way, SU can get a cut from Dave, Dave can continue making dies and make a living and we get the dies we want. Not sure about anyone else, but that seems like a win, win, win for everyone.
Bottom line is that we ( the general public) do not know what sort of legal negotiations are going on. I just hope that a deal can be made that satisfies all parties.
My issue isn't that SU is protecting their copyright, but that they pounced on this one man instead of working with him. They clearly know how we feel so instead of finding a solution, they've gone for his head. THAT is what we're upset about. I've said it before and I'll say it again, why not contract him to make dies for the retired sets and let Sizzix continue with the current stuff. That way, SU can get a cut from Dave, Dave can continue making dies and make a living and we get the dies we want. Not sure about anyone else, but that seems like a win, win, win for everyone.
This was a side job for Dave, a one man operation. That's why it took so long for his store to open back up after he sold out. He did the shipping all by himself. Never found out if he did ever hired extra help or not. It is what it is. If SU feels they were infringed upon, well they have the right to protect them self. But I am glad I bought the 3 die sets from Dave that I did. AND my future purchases with stamp sets from SU will depend on if they have matching dies or not, which is my right to purchase or not, no matter how much I love the stamp set. I am at a point now where I love to cut out and pop images but fussy cutting is getting a little rough for me. So I will be looking at all stamp companies for stamps and matching dies not just SU.
It would benefit SU to make more dies to go with their stamp sets, with or without Dave's help,but that is up to them. I can find what I want from other companies as dies seem to be the rage now and are being made more for matching stamp sets with other companies. I know there are die hard SU fans, but when it comes to MY dollar, I choose to shop where I can get exactly what I want.
__________________ The quickest way for a parent to get a child's attention is to sit down and look comfortable. Practice safe eating always use condiments
My issue isn't that SU is protecting their copyright, but that they pounced on this one man instead of working with him. They clearly know how we feel so instead of finding a solution, they've gone for his head. THAT is what we're upset about. I've said it before and I'll say it again, why not contract him to make dies for the retired sets and let Sizzix continue with the current stuff. That way, SU can get a cut from Dave, Dave can continue making dies and make a living and we get the dies we want. Not sure about anyone else, but that seems like a win, win, win for everyone.
