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On most of the above mentioned "cheaper" camps, the demos are gambling that there will be high dollar sales (like at least $50-$75 from EACH participate just to break even) at the event. Between prep time (even a minimum wage), material costs, food costs, and door prizes they are starting out losing money.
Other demos choose not to gamble so much and try to get their earnings up front to cover costs.
Keep in mind the most demos are not trying to make alot of money from you, they are just trying to get to the point that they are not losing money.
You as the customer, have to decide what is too expensive.
I pay $30 to go to an all day scrapbooking crop with lunch included a few times a year. This sounds like the same just like that except instead of scrapbooking, you're making cards. Think of it as 8 hours of uninterrupted stamping! No kids, husbands or other distractions! I am sure this is worth it for many women.
I totally agree with this. Personally, it's just like a crop and if you went to a convention or big event it would be the same thing. I think $30 is reasonable for this. But I guess I am going against the grain here.
I totally agree with this. Personally, it's just like a crop and if you went to a convention or big event it would be the same thing. I think $30 is reasonable for this. But I guess I am going against the grain here.
Well, I'll keep ya' company! I also consider the $30 fee absolutely reasonable. And, hey, lunch is included? Score!
__________________ Julie Ebersole (JulieHRR once upon a time . . . )julieebersole.com"So shines a good deed in a weary world." -Willy Wonka
I just made some calls and looked online to find a place to hold workshops and stamp camps and crops. At the rate of $400 an evening at a not so special local hotel (many hotels do not even have conference rooms), $30 per person may be a bargain.
I think you misunderstood what Scrapping&Stamping meant. I took it to mean how could her demo have made much money with all of the stuff that she supplied to them for $35. That she spent out more than she earned. I don't think she was saying anywhere in her post that she shouldn't have made money, but that she was amazed with how much she got for her buck. I took the post as praising her demo not criticizing her.
Ditto. I think she meant that she was amazed at everything the demo offered and almost felt bad that the demo probably made very little money off of the event!
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It is too much to pay if you think it is and it's not too much to pay if you don't think it is, KWIM? For some people an eight hour period of time to do nothing but stamp/crop/whatever would be worth it. For others, it wouldn't.
Thank you! This is exactly what I was going to say. Me? I don't know that I would pay $30 for this, but then I have a super-cool stampin room at home, and a husband that is an AWESOME cook. ;) And no kids to worry about. But a mom who needs a day out and has the cash... go for it! Why not?
I would venture a guess to say that this demo is not necessarily looking for big orders. She's trying to recoup the cost of renting the space, paying for the food, and her time in arranging/organizing, etc. And remember, she's spending 8 hours plus away from her family -- working! This IS work, even if it's "fun." I get paid for my job, so why shouldn't she? I know the staff at Archivers is paid when they do a Scrapmania night and are there until 1 AM cleaning up. In fact, if they have already worked a 40-hour week, they get OVERTIME!!!
On most of the above mentioned "cheaper" camps, the demos are gambling that there will be high dollar sales (like at least $50-$75 from EACH participate just to break even) at the event. Between prep time (even a minimum wage), material costs, food costs, and door prizes they are starting out losing money.
Other demos choose not to gamble so much and try to get their earnings up front to cover costs.
Keep in mind the most demos are not trying to make alot of money from you, they are just trying to get to the point that they are not losing money.
You as the customer, have to decide what is too expensive.
Absolutely agree!
Do you know what it's costing her to rent the room you'll all be using, because between that and the cost of lunch she might not be making any (or very little) money.
On most of the above mentioned "cheaper" camps, the demos are gambling that there will be high dollar sales (like at least $50-$75 from EACH participate just to break even) at the event. Between prep time (even a minimum wage), material costs, food costs, and door prizes they are starting out losing money.
Other demos choose not to gamble so much and try to get their earnings up front to cover costs.
Keep in mind the most demos are not trying to make alot of money from you, they are just trying to get to the point that they are not losing money.
You as the customer, have to decide what is too expensive.
I totally agree with this. I know for me, I have tried planning things and they just don't seem to do anything for sales. So yes, I guess I charge a little more to make it worth my time and effort to put on such an event and not lose out on myself.
Do you know what it's costing her to rent the room you'll all be using, because between that and the cost of lunch she might not be making any (or very little) money.
Sencie
Yes, but that doesn't negate the fact that she is doing cash&carry, which she can lose her demoship for. I totally agree she's trying to at least break even, but because she's being "shady" by selling single sheets of CS and such, chances are she's being shady in other areas, possibly over-charging for her event. KWIM?
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Sorry to say but that is way to EXPENSIVE!!!!!!!!!!! The stamp camp i will be attending charges 15.00 for 5 really fun projects. Nice stuff!!! For an extra 5.00 there is an extra challage project. SO 20.00 FOR 6 PROJECTS!!!! In past camps projects have ranged from cards to boxes to bag toppers to protfolios to cork boards and etc. The class is from 9:00 am to 12:00 pm and you don't bring a thing. The have all your supplies for the day in a decorated bag and to top it off DOOR PRIZES!!!! Not to be mean but don't wast your time if you can find something else to do or to spend your money on.
__________________ "If you have knowledge, let others light their candles by it" - Mary Englebreit
has it been determined she is an SU rep?? i didnt see that.. but i may have missed it.
to me.. if she is doing the cash and carry card.. that is a shame.. because it is in violation.. HOWEVER.. if she isnt.. an SU rep.. then no harm.
but.. really.. so what if she makes a little money?? she is giving up her time.. and her expertise to teach others something new.
if the OP-er already has the experience.. then why not decline?? i dont know that i would pay for a class if i already knew the info.. but the opportunity to stamp with women and no kids or hubby calling.. that is worth more money to me.
in reality.. those of us who travel to the scs gatherings pay far more.. (hotel, gas, fee, food,etc.) how is it any differnt?
at the texas gathering.. i made a crack to mamak for making money off of us.. but i was totally kidding! they organized teh event WONDERFULLY and deserved more than they went home with (a cash offering shanon had collected)! they spent a lot of time in preparation for us to stamp together.
a persons time and knowledge is worth money..
look at your hairdresser.. your haircut in reality costs next to nothing... a little shampoo/conditioner and styling aid... but you pay for her knowlege.. her time, etc. it isnt really much different!
Sorry to say but that is way to EXPENSIVE!!!!!!!!!!! The stamp camp i will be attending charges 15.00 for 5 really fun projects. Nice stuff!!! For an extra 5.00 there is an extra challage project. SO 20.00 FOR 6 PROJECTS!!!! In past camps projects have ranged from cards to boxes to bag toppers to protfolios to cork boards and etc. The class is from 9:00 am to 12:00 pm and you don't bring a thing. The have all your supplies for the day in a decorated bag and to top it off DOOR PRIZES!!!! Not to be mean but don't wast your time if you can find something else to do or to spend your money on.
yes! but did your demo RENT a place?? or does she have you in her home??
renting a place requires more money!
Yes, but that doesn't negate the fact that she is doing cash&carry, which she can lose her demoship for. I totally agree she's trying to at least break even, but because she's being "shady" by selling single sheets of CS and such, chances are she's being shady in other areas, possibly over-charging for her event. KWIM?
You're right that it's wrong for her to do cash and carry if she's a Stampin' Up demo, but I haven't seen it said that she was. Of course I might have missed that if it was posted.;)
I was really referring to her rent for the place and her time. I don't know her, so I wouldn't want to assume she's being shady. The original poster is apparently her customer so maybe she would know whether or not to trust her. I mean... sometimes you can rent a place for $50... but some places can cost a few hundred... especially if she's renting it for the whole day. And then there's the factor of how many people are coming to the event. If she rented a place for $250 and had 10 people come that would be $25 for rent and $5 for lunch... with no profit left over for the demo. In that case she'd be working for free!:(
But what if she rented the place for $100 and had 10 people come. Let's say $10 for rent and $5 for lunch and so the demo makes a $15 profit per person. Hmmmmm.... this is an all day event. She'll be there to teach and be available for questions. She probably won't get to do much (if any) stamping for herself. She also had to do all the setting up, making lunch, unless it's catered... in which case it would cost even more.... so less of a profit for her. Does she have door prizes?? Does she give out little extras? Is she a good teacher?? What is her time worth???
Again I'll say... I don't know this demo, don't know if she's a stampin' up demo, and don't know if she's trustworthy, but she's set her price. Ultimately the customer will have to decide if it's worth it.
Not to be mean but don't wast your time if you can find something else to do or to spend your money on.
I am not trying to be mean, either. :grin:
But, I would like to point out that everybody values things differently; such an event as described by the OP would indeed be of value and a great investment of time by many, including myself.
__________________ Julie Ebersole (JulieHRR once upon a time . . . )julieebersole.com"So shines a good deed in a weary world." -Willy Wonka
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A different perspective
I just finished up watercolor classes at a local college, and was charged $250 for the class and had to fork out another $250 for supplies. This was for 10 lessons. The class was full. There is always a waiting list for this class.
Now, I want to flip this around. I paid someone $25/hour to help me learn how to use my supplies to create a watercolor picture. She demoed for 1/2 an hour then helped when we asked.
If I attend a 8 hour stamp camp for $30, then I am paying $3.75/hour. Now figure in the cost of the lunch.....
I know that demos work hard to organize and plan events, that they put a value on their time to teach. If an individual doesn't feel like they are getting the value, it is their choice to attend or not. I don't believe the customer has the right to confront the demo and demand to know why she is charging as she is. If the demo asks her opinion then by all means be honest.
I just finished up watercolor classes at a local college, and was charged $250 for the class and had to fork out another $250 for supplies. This was for 10 lessons. The class was full. There is always a waiting list for this class.
Now, I want to flip this around. I paid someone $25/hour to help me learn how to use my supplies to create a watercolor picture. She demoed for 1/2 an hour then helped when we asked.
If I attend a 8 hour stamp camp for $30, then I am paying $3.75/hour. Now figure in the cost of the lunch.....
I know that demos work hard to organize and plan events, that they put a value on their time to teach. If an individual doesn't feel like they are getting the value, it is their choice to attend or not. I don't believe the customer has the right to confront the demo and demand to know why she is charging as she is. If the demo asks her opinion then by all means be honest.
I host upscale papercraft retreats. http://www.savorymemories.com (thought I would add a little plug for them and I can tell you that after all is said and done there is not alot of money made. That said.... let's look at lunch- is it served with a cold beverage? Is there coffee service throughout the event?? Between room rental, lunch (cheapest may be $15.00) and beverages (coffee service can run maybe $2.50 per person for a few hours time) this gal might eek out $5.00 from the sound of it. Plus it depends on her numbers too as to what her income may be. God knows the venue has to make a decent wage for their space too ;)
I guess aside from all that ~ only the consumer can decide if the goods fit their needs.
I've paid that much for CM crops, too, especially NSD, but that always includes a nice meal and lots of cute freebies: stickers and die cuts, idea sheets, and good door prizes (sticker packs, refills, albums!). For NSD there are usually extra goodies, like coffee mugs and templates.
I would expect a blow-out event for that much $.
Man...I want to go to your crops!!! The ones here I've gone to, there may be a door prize, but mostly not. The only prizes are for a bingo (usually) and to get a "bingo" you have to do something about signing up to be a demo (yeah...right). There is also a "page contest," but, you can only participate if your pages are only CM product!!! There is lunch and a drink, oh and this little pack of paper that no one will ever use, because it is usually ugly...all of this for $45!!!!
I will also say that I just paid for an all night crop...and when I say all night, I mean from 6pm till midnight...at the scrapbook expo in San Jose and it is $30...they provide nothing except a spot on a table, you do get a packet of papers for taking it and they do a few door prizes...but with over 100+ people...door prizes for me are unlikely. No snack, no dinner. We have to buy ourselves, now mind you a corn dog is $7...so dinner usually costs me about $20. So, that's a total of $50 for only 6 hours.
I think the bottom line is this....why do we think it is our business to know where the money goes when someone is in direct sales? Why do we think it is okay for us to question the people we purchase from and negate their time and effort? I don't think I could ever buy anything then ask the sales person, "how much did this cost you?" or "where does the money go that I give you?" What I will CHOSE to say is, "Great! I will see you there!" or "Sorry, this is too rich for my blood." Either you buy because you like or you don't because you don't...there are some people that are expensive and people who are less. This person obviously thinks that she is worth that, if others do not they have the CHOICE to not pay for the class and sit at home.
I just finished up watercolor classes at a local college, and was charged $250 for the class and had to fork out another $250 for supplies. This was for 10 lessons. The class was full. There is always a waiting list for this class.
Now, I want to flip this around. I paid someone $25/hour to help me learn how to use my supplies to create a watercolor picture. She demoed for 1/2 an hour then helped when we asked.
If I attend a 8 hour stamp camp for $30, then I am paying $3.75/hour. Now figure in the cost of the lunch.....
I know that demos work hard to organize and plan events, that they put a value on their time to teach. If an individual doesn't feel like they are getting the value, it is their choice to attend or not. I don't believe the customer has the right to confront the demo and demand to know why she is charging as she is. If the demo asks her opinion then by all means be honest.
I really wouldn't have a problem with the lady charging $30, if the OP was getting value for money. But it seems to me she isn't, the demo is refusing to teach new techniques as "they are to difficult to teach" and she will only get two simple cards out of the whole day.
I think $30 would be fair if you were allowed to use the demo's supplies but had to buy your own card, as you can get through an awful lot of cards in 8 hours and also if they were learning a couple of new techniques, but that doesn't seem to be the case here.
We used to have a SU! demo travel to our town from over 350 miles away 4-6 times per year to hold her stamp camps. She charged $5.00 entry fee (just to come to the event) and $1.00 to $2.00 per card, depending on the difficulty and/or materials involved. She usually had 24-30 projects to make - you could make one project or duplicates of each project, up to the individual customer - and she supplied ALL materials (cardstock, inks, tools, adhesives, embossing powders and any extra materials - ie: dominoes, depending on the project) including tons of extra paper, ink and stamps, in case we wanted to deviate from the "recipe" she supplied for each individual project. She also provided snacks and drinks throughout the day (some were homemade, but she also had veggie trays, muffins, etc). On a side table, there were single stamps (non-SU!) and (retired) stamp sets for sale at discount prices and usually a variety of other items, such as specialty fibers, handmade papers by the roll, etc. She held a drawing every two hours and had great little doorprizes (retired stamp sets, large refill bottle of Stampin Mist, etc). Also, every customer got to pick from a basket of goodies when leaving - usually little incentive stamps, a bag of decorative scraps, a packet of idea sheets, etc.
The camps were held on Saturdays, from 8:00 am till 7:00 pm. She paid $100 a day for the space (these camps were held at our church) and ALWAYS made her money back within an hour or so. She also arrived at the church the night before to set up her tables, supplies, etc and at the end of the day, whatever customers remained to finish up their projects would happily pitch in to help her clean and pack up. On average, people would come and go throughout the day, but if I had to guess, I'd say 50 people a day is a low estimate. Some ladies would arrive at the beginning and stay for the entire day - others would come and go and still others would just stay for an hour or two.
We all loved her and really miss that she doesn't come down anymore - the drive (especially in the winter) and all the packing/unpacking finally caught up to her. She still holds camps on a monthly basis in her city, but there isn't anyone around here who holds camps...
Sooooo - to answer your question - YES! I think the demo you're speaking of is charging waaay too much for what she provides (lunch, basically). JMHO !
We used to have a SU! demo travel to our town from over 350 miles away 4-6 times per year to hold her stamp camps. She charged $5.00 entry fee (just to come to the event) and $1.00 to $2.00 per card, depending on the difficulty and/or materials involved. She usually had 24-30 projects to make - you could make one project or duplicates of each project, up to the individual customer - and she supplied ALL materials (cardstock, inks, tools, adhesives, embossing powders and any extra materials - ie: dominoes, depending on the project) including tons of extra paper, ink and stamps, in case we wanted to deviate from the "recipe" she supplied for each individual project. She also provided snacks and drinks throughout the day (some were homemade, but she also had veggie trays, muffins, etc). On a side table, there were single stamps (non-SU!) and (retired) stamp sets for sale at discount prices and usually a variety of other items, such as specialty fibers, handmade papers by the roll, etc. She held a drawing every two hours and had great little doorprizes (retired stamp sets, large refill bottle of Stampin Mist, etc). Also, every customer got to pick from a basket of goodies when leaving - usually little incentive stamps, a bag of decorative scraps, a packet of idea sheets, etc.
The camps were held on Saturdays, from 8:00 am till 7:00 pm. She paid $100 a day for the space (these camps were held at our church) and ALWAYS made her money back within an hour or so. She also arrived at the church the night before to set up her tables, supplies, etc and at the end of the day, whatever customers remained to finish up their projects would happily pitch in to help her clean and pack up. On average, people would come and go throughout the day, but if I had to guess, I'd say 50 people a day is a low estimate. Some ladies would arrive at the beginning and stay for the entire day - others would come and go and still others would just stay for an hour or two.
We all loved her and really miss that she doesn't come down anymore - the drive (especially in the winter) and all the packing/unpacking finally caught up to her. She still holds camps on a monthly basis in her city, but there isn't anyone around here who holds camps...
Sooooo - to answer your question - YES! I think the demo you're speaking of is charging waaay too much for what she provides (lunch, basically). JMHO !
kimB
Wow!!!
That's really a lot of work for that demo!!!!!! I'm curious... do you know if she was able to get a lot of orders while she was there? It sounds like she'd only be breaking even if she didn't get LOTS of orders. Maybe she doesn't come any more because it wasn't something she made much money on. That's too much work for someone to do for Free!;)
I'm not comfortable with the idea that we can say this woman is charging too much or not. It is HER business and can run it how she sees fit. It is up to the customer whether or not they want to attend. Like others have said she has to pay for the space and for lunch. Shouldn't she also get something for her time?
I'm not saying I would do things the same way this lady is but that's the beauty of being a demonstrator. You can run things the way YOU want to.
Kathleen
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This has been interesting for me to read. I have a wonderful SU demo that holds stamp camps once and month, she charges $15 and it includes 3 projects. The projects vay but there is always a scrapbook page and then 2 other projects, if it is cards it is normally 2-3 cards counting as one project, we have done clipboards, accordian picture frames, mousepads, stamped tiles, glass plates, etc. Also included is dinner. The camp normally lasts about 3 hours. She has all of the items pre cut and stations set up so that you can move around the room to work on the items. I think this is a great deal. I would not pay $30 to go to work on stamp projects if nothing was going to be supplied other than lunch but it could be because I am use to getting the great deal I have been getting.
I have paid over $30 for a day at a CM event though and never really thought much of it b/c it seems to be the norm. I think it is just a matter of what you are use to, my Su demo holds the events at her house and most CM events have had to have a space rented. I use to be a CM consultant and I know that for events like NSD and croptoberfest etc there are extra items that have to be purchased for the customers and that the cost can add up. They want you to use the invites the company provides and the gifts they provide, this cost all gets passed on to the customer. You buy the items in a pack of 8 or 12 for example, if you have 14 people coming you have to allow for the extras you had to buy, may not seem right but it is part of business...
I guess what I am saying is it is a matter of perspective and though it is high to me for a stamping event the lady's time is worth money.
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Wow!!!
That's really a lot of work for that demo!!!!!! I'm curious... do you know if she was able to get a lot of orders while she was there? It sounds like she'd only be breaking even if she didn't get LOTS of orders. Maybe she doesn't come any more because it wasn't something she made much money on. That's too much work for someone to do for Free!;)
Sencie
Yes, she did quite well, both in orders and during the camp itself. Many ladies (at the camp) would walk away after having spent $50 or more (on projects alone). Her reason for not holding the camps here anymore had nothing to do with finances. BTW - her daughter and grandkids live in our community (DD is a stamper too) and she would always spend a week or so with them while she was here. They were her primary reason for coming down.
