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I still think swapping a few images is NOT the same has hanging the artwork in your home. If you were constantly getting the same image every time you wanted it, that would be different. Do you ever borrow someone else's set to make a card with?
I'll be quite honest! No, I personally do not borrow stamps from others for various reasons--One being that in the past, I've been in the position of having others ask to borrow my stamps; after a while, I finally realized they never had any intention of buying their own stamps and just wanted to borrow mine (at my expense).
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That would be the same as swapping a couple images. I can borrow someone's CD no problem--again, the difference is a time limit vs permanent unlimited use. Like I said, you should NOT copy a CD for someone, but it's not a problem to borrow it for a time or listen to it (get SOME use out of it) without buying it. Again, fine line.
I still can't say I agree, but, I do hear what you're saying.
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I definitely think the company should be acknowledged though.
Unfortunately, this is unlikely to happen with swapped images; people just don't do it.
__________________ Julie Ebersole (JulieHRR once upon a time . . . )julieebersole.com"So shines a good deed in a weary world." -Willy Wonka
I'll be quite honest! No, I personally do not borrow stamps from others for various reasons--One being that in the past, I've been in the position of having others ask to borrow my stamps; after a while, I finally realized they never had any intention of buying their own stamps and just wanted to borrow mine (at my expense).
:(
I think that would upset me too. My friend and I share our stamps when we get together. Like if I go to buy a set or two but she already has them, I find out what ones she's been looking at and buy those. Now we don't always do this...sometimes you just have to have your own set too.
Hehe..... I try and do that all the time! Miss Julie has such a great way with words.
yes, and she's so diplomatic even when she disagrees I hear what you are saying, too, Julie. I agree that it is a fine line and I hadn't thought of the swapping before, so I am glad that it was brought up--gets us all thinking!
__________________ Lynn
"Sir, my concern is not whether God is on our side; my greatest concern is to be on God's side, for God is always right�--Lincoln
What if we all had to buy every song we ever listened to? Isn't that kind of the same?
Even when you listen on the radio, the song is paid for in some way - artists get payments based on airplay so the radio station is paying on your behalf. Your part of the deal is usually to listen to the advertising that the station sells in order to fund its existence. So even though you didn't buy the song, somebody paid for you to listen to it, make sense?
OH my goodness....I belong to Wishrak...this is wrong? I would never sell or buy images but I like to get a few of what I am looking for to try them and then go buy the stamp if I truly love it. Why would they offer this here if it is wrong?
blessings.
I don't know if I'd swap images just because I like to have my own stuff, kwim? I've had people borrow stuff, not necessarily stamps alone, and not return them. Lesson learned from that.
I guess, to me, you have to go with what you feel. Like me...Saturday past I was in Hobby Lobby and purchased a nestie. I got all the way home--about 25 minutes away--to find that I had two of the same nesties and had only been charged for one. I felt so bad about it. My daughter and daughter-in-law had been with me. Well I'm the type who will mull over something if I have an icky feeling and I had an icky feeling. So I told my husband I was going back and take the extra nestie back. He drove me!! And they were very nice at HL. Gave me 50 percent off coupon to use anytime with no expiration date!! Wow! Nice people!
So based on the above, I just don't swap images or anything like that because I'd get an icky feeling....like I was doing something wrong. But that's just me.
__________________ It always feels like somebody's watching me. Hey, is it YOU?
Like someone upthread said, maybe it's the volume that bothers me about swapping images....
look at the image swap threads here... there are literally HUNDREDS of images being swapped in those threads...
You wouldn't have the access to those within your IRL circle of friends. You'd swap back and forth between 2-3 people. Here, you have thousands of members to swap with.
If you and a few friends are pooling resources to make sure you all get the images within your group you want, that is one thing, but when you move it to such a large scale, it becomes a very different monster.
It goes from being someone borrowing a cup of sugar to having the entire sugar supply from Hawaii borrowed, KWIM?
OH my goodness....I belong to Wishrak...this is wrong? I would never sell or buy images but I like to get a few of what I am looking for to try them and then go buy the stamp if I truly love it. Why would they offer this here if it is wrong?
blessings.
Amber-
that's a tough one to answer- I think it stems down to what you think is acceptable or not. Many have chimed in here one way or another, and it seems that most of us do not practice this swapping of images, but, there are some that do-
I don't SCS has a stance on this- it's not SCS that created the wish rak to begin with, they just allow a forum here for that purpose.
ten minutes ago I would have agreed with the no swapping image statement, but, I just went online to buy a stamp I need 1 image of for a project, the stamp costs 9.95 the shipping is 8.95 I will be asking someone for the image thank you very much.
(I did call the company to see if the policy is iron clad and was told that is there shipping policy) I am sure if I owned this stamp I would use it over and over again, I am sure it would convince me to buy more of this companies stamps. They lose this customer.
Thank you for your input....I have to say that I swap a lot of cardstock and DSP with others...I get quite a few images though...I think I am going to give this issue some thought and decide wether to continue with Wishrak. I really really do not want to harm someones livelyhood. Heaven knows I probably have enough stamps to not need any more images anyway.
Blessings to all.
yes, and she's so diplomatic even when she disagrees I hear what you are saying, too, Julie.
I think it's so cool that we can all come to the table with differing views, and have an opportunity to see things from all sorts of other perspectives and have a lively, fascinating and insightful discussion!
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I agree that it is a fine line and I hadn't thought of the swapping before, so I am glad that it was brought up--gets us all thinking!
As you said, which I totally agree with ;) , it gets us all thinking! :mrgreen:
__________________ Julie Ebersole (JulieHRR once upon a time . . . )julieebersole.com"So shines a good deed in a weary world." -Willy Wonka
ten minutes ago I would have agreed with the no swapping image statement, but, I just went online to buy a stamp I need 1 image of for a project, the stamp costs 9.95 the shipping is 8.95 I will be asking someone for the image thank you very much.
(I did call the company to see if the policy is iron clad and was told that is there shipping policy) I am sure if I owned this stamp I would use it over and over again, I am sure it would convince me to buy more of this companies stamps. They lose this customer.
See, there is such a delimma involved because personally I've RAK'd someone that "one image" for a project and was glad to do it. Then a while later I came across another request (on another board) for someone who wanted 10 images. Well, I went ahead and did it. Come to find out she received MANY offers of "just 10", and made 150 invitations for her daughter's wedding! I was FLOORED! So we all RAK'd her those "just 10" images on OUR cardstock with OUR ink and she got her daughter's announcements done on OUR dollar, not to mention the lost revenue from the stamp company.
That is just wrong.... and I see plenty of people going back for round after round of swapping here... they always list the same sets available to RAK in return, but their own lists are as varied as the shades of blue... just don't think that's right, ya know?
oh, and the wedding announcement girl never so much as sent a thank you to any of us like she promised... she was supposed to send us a card as a thank you... never got one...
See, there is such a delimma involved because personally I've RAK'd someone that "one image" for a project and was glad to do it. Then a while later I came across another request (on another board) for someone who wanted 10 images. Well, I went ahead and did it. Come to find out she received MANY offers of "just 10", and made 150 invitations for her daughter's wedding! I was FLOORED! So we all RAK'd her those "just 10" images on OUR cardstock with OUR ink and she got her daughter's announcements done on OUR dollar, not to mention the lost revenue from the stamp company.
That is just wrong.... and I see plenty of people going back for round after round of swapping here... they always list the same sets available to RAK in return, but their own lists are as varied as the shades of blue... just don't think that's right, ya know?
Holy mackerol. :shock: I would have been equally floored.
__________________ Julie Ebersole (JulieHRR once upon a time . . . )julieebersole.com"So shines a good deed in a weary world." -Willy Wonka
oh, and the wedding announcement girl never so much as sent a thank you to any of us like she promised... she was supposed to send us a card as a thank you... never got one...
Maybe she couldn't get enough images together from other stampers? :rolleyes:
What a cheapskate stunt. Even if you'll never use the stamp again you buy it and then sell it or swap it once you're done - sheesh!
that's a good point...the internet does change the scale of things (good & bad)
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Originally Posted by StampHunter68
Like someone upthread said, maybe it's the volume that bothers me about swapping images....
look at the image swap threads here... there are literally HUNDREDS of images being swapped in those threads...
You wouldn't have the access to those within your IRL circle of friends. You'd swap back and forth between 2-3 people. Here, you have thousands of members to swap with.
If you and a few friends are pooling resources to make sure you all get the images within your group you want, that is one thing, but when you move it to such a large scale, it becomes a very different monster.
It goes from being someone borrowing a cup of sugar to having the entire sugar supply from Hawaii borrowed, KWIM?
__________________ Lynn
"Sir, my concern is not whether God is on our side; my greatest concern is to be on God's side, for God is always right�--Lincoln
Okay, I'll bite. I agree with all those who say that either selling stamped images or trading stamped images interferes with a company's ability to profit from their own original ideas and creations. I think it is absolutely WRONG for people to sell stamped images. I have no problem with someone using our stamps to make cards or altered objects to sell. (I know some companies do not agree with this idea, so I'm speaking only for my company's policy.) That's different, because the person who assembles the card is using some of their OWN creative process for a different end result than what my stamp alone provides. But if you just stamp off images and sell them, you're not creating anything new -- you'd only be profiting from MY creation.
I'm also opposed in many respects to the trading of images. Now before people jump on me, let me explain: If the trading is circumventing a sale, then I believe it's wrong. There are some people who trade "RAK" images. To me, if an image is randomly traded -- which means that you receive a surprise image in the mail to use -- then it's a fun thing. But when you specifically say "I need the Hambo 'elephant' stamped off" (as an example) and someone stamps that for you, it's NOT random. If the person NEEDS that image, then the stamp should be purchased. If the original purchaser then stamps all the needed images for all of their friends, then the artist of that design has been left out of the equation and cannot profit from his or her own creation. If the artists want their work passed around freely, I think they'd offer their designs on free clip-art pages. If it's found on a website with a price next to it, then clearly the artist is not GIVING it away.
I think the "Golden Rule" applies to so many things in life, including this situation. If stamp-making were YOUR business, how would you feel about people using your designs without paying for them? If you work in a corporate environment, would you want a colleague getting a pay raise because they merely presented a report for which YOU'D done all the work? If you were a fashion designer, would you want someone else to sell the patterns that you'd created? I could give many more examples, but I think you see what I'm saying. Treat others as you'd like to be treated yourself. (Unless you're a masochist! LOL)
I also belong to wish Rak and I love it and will continue to swap images as long as there is a Wish Rak on SCS.
DO you know how many NEW stamp companies I got turned onto and ended up ordering & buying stamps from those companies BECAUSE of WISH RAK??
INCLUDING Hambo stamps? To many to count!!!
I found companies through WISH RAK that I never would have found anywhere else. AND so have many other Wish Rakers.
So YES Wish Rak is a GOOD thing also for stamp companies. That is how I found out about Sugar Nellies/Magnolia/Faiarie Art/StampScapes and so many more.
I also use wish rak to try new stamp companies images to see if I really like them enough to buy them. NOT to just get an artist images for free.
We only have 1 little stamp shop here where I live and they don't have many different vendor stamps. Therefore I shop on-line and it is hard to truly tell how the size and how the stamp really stamps without seeing images first.
Things are tight and I cannot afford to waste money on stamps that I found out I really did not like.
So please think about this side of it before deciding that WISH RAK is damaging to stamp companies. WISH RAK has brought NEW business to just about every stamp company.
I agree that selling images is wrong. But I am not against swapping a few images as part of a RAK. I really don't see as likely to have a big impact on sales. In fact, it might earn sales that otherwise wouldn't have been made. Many stamps I've ended up purchasing because I decided I really did think I would use it more than a couple of times and there were things I wanted to do with the stamp that would require me to have it, rather than a stamped off image.
There is a lot of good debate on this topic and each side has good points. If SCS did away with RAK of stamped images, I think then it would have to be extended to ban the RAK of cardstock, brads, etc. It's a slippery slope. Should I not give my friend a few pieces of SU! cardstock to try and see if she likes it? Should I say, "no sorry you have to buy it from SU! I can't give you a piece." She probably won't buy it.
Although slightly different, it's similar in some ways to the movement to stop the resale of CDs. Should re-selling something you purchased be banned? Think about it. Have you sold a CD or a book to a re-sale shop? Have you bought a book or CD at a resale shop or a garage sale? How about clothing? While I think this is different slightly than keeping the original and reselling copies (and selling stamped images while you keep the original stamp), it's really the same basic concept. What about banning the sale of pre-owned stamps on the website? Should SCS do that? If you buy a stamp or set on SCS, the artist isn't getting that money. To me, this is the natural progression. If you're against swapping a few images because the artist loses out, then you shouldn't resell items or purchase any type of pre-owned item ever. KWIM?
This has been an interesting thread to read. I do not participate in the Wish RAK...though I thought about it. My main reason for not doing it was the share overwhelming feeling I had looking at the numbers of people involved!
I do swap images with a couple of SCS friends. I never would have thought to swap images except for the swaps listed here. Guess I figured it was accepted and "good"
Like the above post, I have learned about new companies via swaps (and SCS in general) I will ponder this more...and talk it over w/ my swap buddies. Definitely something to think about more in depth. ;-)
__________________ Kim in Illinois, Dirty Dozen Alum, QFTD#207, FS798, VSN Moderator "Famous Last Words" Spring Virtual Stamp Night, April 19 & 20
Like someone upthread said, maybe it's the volume that bothers me about swapping images....
look at the image swap threads here... there are literally HUNDREDS of images being swapped in those threads...
You wouldn't have the access to those within your IRL circle of friends. You'd swap back and forth between 2-3 people. Here, you have thousands of members to swap with.
If you and a few friends are pooling resources to make sure you all get the images within your group you want, that is one thing, but when you move it to such a large scale, it becomes a very different monster.
It goes from being someone borrowing a cup of sugar to having the entire sugar supply from Hawaii borrowed, KWIM?
You make a very good point on the volume at which it occurs due to online, vs. IRL with a small circle of personal friends.
__________________ Julie Ebersole (JulieHRR once upon a time . . . )julieebersole.com"So shines a good deed in a weary world." -Willy Wonka
Most of the "angel policies" I've read haven't kept up with the times -- the internet has changed everything. They could be much clearer. I've often thought that they needed an update, with a review by a lawyer and a stamper!
It would be wonderful if the major stamp companies pooled their resources, hired an intellectual property lawyer, and came up with a 3 or 4 angel policies that were standard and the company could select which one fit the needs of its company, and then let us all know what each policy means in the practical world and which one the company had adopted.
2. From a papercrafty viewpoint, I don't like stamped images. I've received them and always felt so restricted in how to use them. If all you want is an image on white paper wtih black ink so you can color it in and then mount it, it might work. And what if the ink isn't compatible with watercolor or copics? Or you don't know what ink it is and ruin the image by using the wrong item with it?
So, personally, I have no interest in buying, or getting these types of images.
__________________ Dear Paperlicious is my blog...with a series on how I'm learning to improve my cardmaking by studying others.
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What about retired stamps? I didn't start with SU until Wild Wild West was retired. I **WANT** this set and I would buy it from SU in a heartbeat (or less) but it isn't available. I can't afford it on eBay ($200) so all I can do is swap for the images.
Also, until I joined the PIF thread, I'd never heard of Fluffles or Calendar Chicks and while I'd seen the House Mouse stamps, I'd never purchased them. I now have about 10 HM stamps and while I haven't purchased any Fluffles or Chicks yet, they are on my wish list...maybe my birthday.
Does/How does this affect people's opinions?
__________________ Erin (aka: "Chipchick") My Card Blog
I agree, that's pretty crappy to stamp off an image and then sell it on e-bay. Other countries are not as strict about copywright protection. It is unfair to the companies.
This is a very interesting thread. I have never swapped for any images, because I prefer to hold the stamp in my hand and decide how I want to use it. I loved hearing from the owner of Hambo and would love to hear from any other owners.
I have to say, though, that because of this site and a few others I have found many great stamp companies that are not available to me locally. I find for myself that I'd prefer to purchase these stamps, rather than swap to obtain the images. So, for me, I don't know about the argument that the only way to know of these companies is to swap for them.
What about retired stamps? I didn't start with SU until Wild Wild West was retired. I **WANT** this set and I would buy it from SU in a heartbeat (or less) but it isn't available. I can't afford it on eBay ($200) so all I can do is swap for the images.
Also, until I joined the PIF thread, I'd never heard of Fluffles or Calendar Chicks and while I'd seen the House Mouse stamps, I'd never purchased them. I now have about 10 HM stamps and while I haven't purchased any Fluffles or Chicks yet, they are on my wish list...maybe my birthday.
Does/How does this affect people's opinions?
The copyrights apply with retired images too.
__________________ Jeanne S - Inky Paws SCS Moderator
What about retired stamps? I didn't start with SU until Wild Wild West was retired. I **WANT** this set and I would buy it from SU in a heartbeat (or less) but it isn't available. I can't afford it on eBay ($200) so all I can do is swap for the images.
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Also, until I joined the PIF thread, I'd never heard of Fluffles or Calendar Chicks and while I'd seen the House Mouse stamps, I'd never purchased them. I now have about 10 HM stamps and while I haven't purchased any Fluffles or Chicks yet, they are on my wish list...maybe my birthday.
Does/How does this affect people's opinions?
Totally agree with you on that. I received my first penny black image thru a image swap. I now own at least 10 or 15 stamps, and if I could I would own most of them. It also convinced me that I need whiff of joy stamps, sugar nellies, whipper snapper, and a few others.
But I do not think images should be sold.
And the lady that got RAK's from everywhere to make 150 wedding invitations...that is totally wrong.
MAGNOLIA stamp company allows their images to be SOLD and TRADED.
Some stamp companies do allow that.
But again, I do belong to RAK and I trade images all the time. I have bought so many stamps because I liked the image I received . Trading and selling are 2 different things. The person is not making any money off of raking or trading.
Selling I also am against as the seller is making money instead of the artist on images.
I actually had never heard of swapping stamped images until a lady from Canada (I don't think she was on SCS) said she liked to send her grandson cards every week and wondered if some of us kind ladies would send her a few stamped images. I felt bad for her so I used good white cardstock and a black India Ink pad to stamp her a few (actually quite a few) different images. I then sent them to her (wasn't free for me to send), and never heard a word from her. I wasn't expecting a thank you, but I thought she might email me to let me know that she'd gotten them and enjoyed them. Well, I tossed the lady's name and haven't done that again. Actually, I see nothing wrong with the RAKs, but the selling just sticks in my craw. Personally I can't imagine using a stamped image. I have way to much fun doing my own. I will add though that I see nothing wrong with selling stamps you've used and grown tired of. Way different than selling images.
__________________ Keep what is worth keeping
and with the breath of kindness
blow the rest away.
Although slightly different, it's similar in some ways to the movement to stop the resale of CDs. Should re-selling something you purchased be banned? Think about it. Have you sold a CD or a book to a re-sale shop? Have you bought a book or CD at a resale shop or a garage sale? How about clothing? While I think this is different slightly than keeping the original and reselling copies (and selling stamped images while you keep the original stamp), it's really the same basic concept. What about banning the sale of pre-owned stamps on the website? Should SCS do that? If you buy a stamp or set on SCS, the artist isn't getting that money. To me, this is the natural progression. If you're against swapping a few images because the artist loses out, then you shouldn't resell items or purchase any type of pre-owned item ever. KWIM?
In this scenario the artist has already been paid from that initial purchase. If you have burned the CD, copied the book, or used the clothing to make your own pattern and then sell the original, that's a bit shifty. However if you no longer have a use for the item and you sell it, you are getting your money back. The artist still got paid. Even though multiple people have gotten use out of the item, presumably there has only been one user at a time, and that's what the initial purchase paid for.
I suppose you could get into the fact that buying used is taking way from the artist, since there was no second purchase that could have benefit him or her, so I see your point. However, some people may not have bought a set new anyway, so the artist would have been out of that potential second sale.
This is definitely an interesting topic, one I hadn't really given much thought to. I don't participate in image swaps for several reasons-I prefer to stamp something myself and apply it how I see fit; if I like something that much I will just buy it; if I only kind of like it, I'll do without and then I usually forget about it;
MAGNOLIA stamp company allows their images to be SOLD and TRADED. Some stamp companies do allow that.
But again, I do belong to RAK and I trade images all the time. I have bought so many stamps because I liked the image I received . Trading and selling are 2 different things. The person is not making any money off of raking or trading.
Selling I also am against as the seller is making money instead of the artist on images.
well, it's just one- That is the ONLY company I have heard of approving of this so far, not some.
I still disagree with the trading of images though- you are one person, and while you say it helps companies, not all will make that purchase after receiving images. I am glad that you were willing to make the purchase of the stamps- hopefully, that can become the norm.:-D
I can not use them that way- I need the freedom of being able to use the way I see fit- it's just not the same imo.
Ok, gotta put in my 2 cents...for what its worth. One, I would never sell someone an image. Many of my friends have asked for images of a certain stamp I have and I gladly share. I've done the same with my friends. I'm also a member of WRAK and have enjoyed the PIF threads for images. Before I belonged to WRAK and PIF I only had SU stamps and maybe a few others. Since getting these images.....I've spent 10 times the amount over the past year that I would have. For me, when I get that image in the mail, its like trying it out to see if I like it. Nine times out of 10 if its something I love, I'm going to buy the stamp. I know questions have been raised before with sentiments, and computer generating them was frowned upon. Well....does that mean that printing out "Happy Birthday" on your computer is wrong, because you stole that sentiment from someone?
There are also issues of money! What about the single mom who wants to be a paper crafter and can't afford to buy sets? Isn't her trading images or being on WRAK a great way for her to use her crafting abilities.
I suppose I could go on and on, and I hope I don't get flamed for posting this! Just putting my thoughts out there.
well, it's just one- That is the ONLY company I have heard of approving of this so far, not some.
I still disagree with the trading of images though- you are one person, and while you say it helps companies, not all will make that purchase after receiving images. I am glad that you were willing to make the purchase of the stamps- hopefully, that can become the norm.:-D
I can not use them that way- I need the freedom of being able to use the way I see fit- it's just not the same imo.
AJ....
I respect your opinion....and please accept my apology for not asking the newer member companies how they felt about Wish-RAK.
When the member companies first started with SCS, we did have a lengthy discussion about this same topic. At that point in time, the member companies appreciated the additional advertising and marketing Wish-RAK provided by sharing stamped images for others to see. In order to share those images, *someone* had to purchase the stamp or stamp set....and many, after seeing the stamped images....purchased the stamp or stamp set themselves. We see this when the wish is closed because they comment, "Please close, I purchased the stamp set!!"
I personally can tell you, since Wish-RAK....I am much wiser in my spending monies on stamps. Less "wasted" monies on stamps or stamp sets that I've purchased online and been very disappointed....especially in the size of the stamped image, because companies only give the overall size of the rubber the set is on......ie.....4 x 6 inches.....not the size of individual stamps. Now, after seeing the stamped images, I spend more wisely and therefore, actually have more money to spend!!
Now, as a Mod for Wish-RAK, I can make sure your stamped images are not shared amongst its members. You just need to let me know!!
