Splitcoaststampers.com - the world's #1 papercrafting community
You're currently viewing Splitcoaststampers as a GUEST. We pride ourselves on being great hosts, but guests have limited access to some of our incredible artwork, our lively forums and other super cool features of the site! You can join our incredible papercrafting community at NO COST. So what are you waiting for?
.......Once someone wants to pay me to make them cards, I begin second-guessing what I am making (i.e. is this good enough for someone to pay for? Should my cutting be straighter, etc.?).
Oh yes, I am exactly the same - which is why I no longer do any commissions - it just stresses me and it sucks me dry creatively. I have done commissions in the past - including tole painting (or decorative painting) but found that I just didn't enjoy the whole process of doing it for money (and it was a pittance - my fault for thinking I shouldn't charge anything much) and it completely took away my enjoyment. I don't know why I thought I shouldn't charge much? Is it guilt? Is it pressure to virtually give it away becauseI get the "pleasure" of creating and that should be payment enough? Do I feel that my work is sub-standard compared to a professional Artist? Am I my own worst-enemy? Most people I have dealt with just seem to expect that a homemade item will be waaaaaay cheaper than one they buy from a store. Questions that I wish I knew the answer to :!:
I actually state on my blog that I do not do commissions because people would email me asking if I could make 50 (yes, really!) of my latest card for them and when I would refuse (politely of course), they would try and talk me round. I was silly enough one time to send a Commission to the USA (I am in Australia) which cost me $20 to post and they said they would pay me with some Craft Supplies by return post - yep, I am still waiting.....I think they said they had been ill & hadn't had a chance to send them...I just let it go because it made me angry and I don't want to be angry :rolleyes: That was my last Commission! My BIL rang and asked me a few days ago to make him a bunch of simple cards because he didn't want to pay $6 each for a card at the shops and thought I could make some for him for no more than 50 cents each because he knew how much I loved making cards.......ummmm.....NO! I know that he meant well & I guess it was a compliment - but he just has no clue!
My experiences have taught me that my sole reason for doing my crafty hobbies is because it makes me happy - I am pleasing no-one but myself (I hope that doesn't sound selfish?) - it's fun, it's relaxing and I learn new techniques and it STILL excites me! It's my therapy! I just LOVE making cards and that's enough for me
...my sole reason for doing my crafty hobbies is because it makes me happy - I am pleasing no-one but myself (I hope that doesn't sound selfish?) - it's fun, it's relaxing and I learn new techniques and it STILL excites me!
Amen, Sister
__________________ "May your mind whirl joyful cartwheels of creativity." - Jonathan Lockwood Huie.
I take your point, Sophie, and I certainly have no problem with people paying doctors and lawyers and IT techs - they have student loans and current bills to pay, after all - I just get annoyed that people seem to overlook the fact that those who work with their hands need to earn a living, too.
Your statement about your brother-in-law also made me wonder what type of attorney he is (corporate, small claims, personal injury, defense), if he's the "last, most unsavory option". I've paid attorneys for perfectly okay stuff - and I had to seek them out to do it! Whatever type he is, I'll bet that the people he works with are grateful that he does what he does, even if it's their last option...
He's a brand-new lawyer, striking out on his own. Most of the cases he's worked on are court-appointed stuff. He's still got to work to drum up business, build a reputation, etc. He still has to work part-time as a drywall-person to make sure there's enough to pay the bills.
Ah, then his life should get easier when he's able to have clients that DO seek him out! Court-appointed is a rough go... I wish him the best in his new venture.
As to the whole "why do we set our prices so low?" conundrum, my thought (because I'm guilty of it) is that we don't adequately factor in our time when we consider what to charge. We know that WE could make that (your item here) for the cost of materials alone, so - consciously or sub-consciously - we think "I can only charge x amount or they won't pay it". I think that's also why we think other crafters should do something for us for so much less, as well. I don't think it's a snarky, take-advantage-of-you mindset - I think it's more of a subliminal, undercurrent extension of the reason we don't charge enough. Regardless, we need to value ourselves and each other more, and charge (and pay) what things are really worth!
Thank you everyone for your experiences and knowledge on this issue. I did think about this topic, and I see a lot of people doing 'classes' where they charge around 5 dollars per card and do all the work for the ladies - all that is required is glue to assemble. Even at this, I don't think it pays for the materials and time put into the prep (and people getting cranky that they feel 5 dollars per card is too much).
So I thought I would rather make cards for charities and churches or other orgs that could use them to thank people for donations. The cost of these cards are a tax right off, right? Anyone ever done that? Taken the cards they donate off their taxes?
yes... but, the catch is... you can only donate the cost of the paper according to my CPA ( which just makes me sneer ) I gave him my printed out OWH receipts the first year they offered a receipt... he wrote 9.00 off my taxes for 150 cards... I have never given him a receipt for my donated cards since....
at that time the money that was enclosed with the cards so they could ship them to the troops was more than the 9.00 he deducted from my taxes. :rolleyes:
from my own experience I would say its not worth your bother to try to claim them.
( I have also turned in receipts from a local food bank which takes home grown veggies and gives you a receipt by the pound of what you donated, fresh organic food... ) I believe that donating around 1000 pounds took off about 50.00 :cool:
( I'd like to see someone buy that much for for 50.00)
In addition to my card-making adventures, I have gotten into knitting dishcloths - it's almost meditative, and much more portable than the paper crafts. So, I have a stack of them in the kitchen drawer, and another stack in the linen closet (they are awesome as washcloths for the shower) and I have given a mess of them away. My husband suggested that I should check into selling them - but every place around here that I have seen them for sale, they are priced at $1. I'm sorry, but $1 barely covers the cost of the yarn if i buy it at Michael's best sale
Now, maybe I have the wrong attitude, and since I'm often working on them while watching tv and I enjoy making them, I shouldn't want to be paid for my time. But darn it, I would rather give them away to people who appreciate them!
The "creative arts" are not the only area suffering from devaluation - it's pretty much anything done "by hand". My husband is a mason, and an incredibly gifted and skilled one, and the true craftsmen are being pushed out by the contractors that just want it done fast - no matter how scabbed together - and don't want to pay anything. What he is capable of is quickly becoming a lost art. For example, those beautiful walls made from field stone with no mortar in them (dry-laid is the proper term) takes some engineering knowledge as well as the ability to execute, and I can't name a single mason besides my husband who knows how to do this! I can't tell you how many jobsites he's been called in on to consult, then had his suggestions nixed because it would take too long. The result is shabby work that has to be re-done in a few years, rather than a beautiful structure that lasts for decades or even centuries... Oh - and he's been unemployed for much of the past year because no one wants to pay for skilled labor. They'll pay through the nose for a doctor or lawyer or IT tech or whatever, but can any of them build you a house? Or fix the one you have? The skilled trades are largely devalued because the focus has turned to paying people for what they do with their head, and not what they do with their hands. (Can you tell I've copped a bit of resentment on this particular issue?) Thanks for listening to my little rant...
After doing the walk throughs and the warranty issues with our brand new house. We have come to the conclusion - there is no pride in workman ship. It is all about the money and how fast you can slap it up. These houses will not last 100 years like so many others. It's that throw away society that has grown. Lots of lost skills that are going to be miss once the apocalypse hits us ;)
__________________ 2 cats short of the Crazy Cat Lady (5 Ragdolls RIP Katie DSH, RIP little Merlot Flame Ragdoll & Sunna Torbie Ragdoll- we miss you! Damn FIP) http://rebecca-rebeccasemptynest.blogspot.com/
Yeah - when we lived in Texas, the local building code required that the exterior of the house have at least 25% masonry - preferably stone or brick - so he had a lot of work there, but the houses themselves were just thrown together. They looked pretty, but when he was hammering in wall ties to the front of the house, he could hear the windows at the back of the house rattle... We called it "frosting on manure", lol!
I apologize to the OP for thread-jacking - totally unintentional - but this just reinforces my theory that Everything Is The Same Subject. The issues transfer over everywhere. That same "throwaway mentality" is why we have mountains of stuff in landfills, and why we're choking the oceans with plastic bags and bottles, and on and on ad nauseum...
I'd LOVE to see a return to a time where beautiful handiworks were prized for the time and effort and skill that went into them, and the artisans rewarded for their efforts - monetarily AND with accolades!
I'd LOVE to see a return to a time where beautiful handiworks were prized for the time and effort and skill that went into them, and the artisans rewarded for their efforts - monetarily AND with accolades!
Big Standing Ovation for Sue!!!!! I feel the same way I want too see artisan work prized and the artisans to receive accolades. Everything is manufactured now from music to art. It's so sad.
My DH & I had a chance to buy a brand new home. We chose our nice little 1940's bungalow. Our home was crafted and not glued together. I have real walls & hand crafted floors. I wouldn't trade that for the world.
Up the street from my home is an apple orchard with a little gift shop. There were no handmade cards, so I approached the owner with a sample of my work and he agreed to give me space. He doesn't charge anything and gives the craftsman all of their proceeds. I had Halloween, Thanksgiving and Christmas cards along with thank you cards appropriate for the seasons. Most were not elaborate but about mid range and I priced them at $3-5 depending on size. I also made larger easel and swing cards which I priced at $6. I rotated my stock, etc, and at the ends of the season I had put 130 different cards out, earned $30 and "lost" about 20 cards. The owner of the orchard suggested my cards were overpriced! Luckily, I hadn't rushed to make the majority of these cards, I had them made because I like to make cards and with 6 grown children I go through them quickly. I never went back there and have never tried to sell my art again. Even friends who aren't crafters don't seem to understand the time invested.
Ah, then his life should get easier when he's able to have clients that DO seek him out! Court-appointed is a rough go... I wish him the best in his new venture.
As to the whole "why do we set our prices so low?" conundrum, my thought (because I'm guilty of it) is that we don't adequately factor in our time when we consider what to charge. We know that WE could make that (your item here) for the cost of materials alone, so - consciously or sub-consciously - we think "I can only charge x amount or they won't pay it". I think that's also why we think other crafters should do something for us for so much less, as well. I don't think it's a snarky, take-advantage-of-you mindset - I think it's more of a subliminal, undercurrent extension of the reason we don't charge enough. Regardless, we need to value ourselves and each other more, and charge (and pay) what things are really worth!
I agree! I teach rubber stamping, card making classes at my local adult ed. and privately....I charge a what I consider a small fee for supplies/materials....I prep everything for them. Yes, I do it because I love to share my talents and see the enthusiam in them when they finish a card but I'm retired and have to pay full price for everything I supply so I am not making any money. The attendance in my classes has fallen a lot because of the economy so I grin and bare it. It is nice after a class to be thanked and told you do beautiful cards but let's face it that doesn't help with the bills. I have cut back a lot in my spending of stamps and products...only buy what I am possitive I will be using. Back in the day (been stamping for over 15 years) I would go to a stamp store or convention and buy, buy, buy but not anymore.
what I would like to see is being paid (cash) when we are published in a magazine...not just a free magazine. Let's face it the magazines are in it for the money. Without us sending in our art they wouldn't be in business.
stamping sue Stamping Sue
Are there any print stamp magazines left? LOL! I agree there should be payment for publication - and look at Take Ten magazine - it is just a compilation of cards sent in. The publishers really don't have to do much of anything except put the magazine together.
I think so many people don't realize that when you purchase a handcrafted item, or have a designer make a card to promote your product, the materials cost is very low...what you are buying is the creative talents of the person who made the item. And we all should hold out for what our creative talents are worth.
My husbands daughter crochets as a hobby and makes many baby sized blankets. She sells them through the interoffice system at work - the company allows employees to post things for sale. She had one woman who paid her $150 for one piece and my husbands daughter was so surprised to get that much. I told her that her time was valuable and that woman understood the value of a handcrafted item. She has since upped her prices and has no problem getting what she asks.
You have to be able to itemize to write them off and you have to reach I believe $1000.00 - that would be a challenge. Check with your tax accountant before you put this thought into action.
You have to be able to itemize to write them off and you have to reach I believe $1000.00 - that would be a challenge. Check with your tax accountant before you put this thought into action.[/QUOTE]
So I thought I would rather make cards for charities and churches or other orgs that could use them to thank people for donations. The cost of these cards are a tax right off, right? Anyone ever done that? Taken the cards they donate off their taxes?
I am participating in my first and last craft show next Saturday. I knew after making the 10th of the same card, this was not for me. And then when I was googling craft show set up images, I came across a blog where the woman made the most money selling pretty paper wrapped Hershey Nuggets - not the cards she spent hours on. After reading this though, I know now that if I have 100 cards left over at the end of the day, then so be it. I am sure to sell the nuggets - LOL! Great thread.
After running out of friends and family to send my cards to, I branched out and decided to sell them. I couldn't charge as much as I thought they were worth but was hoping to get my investment back at least. It was a way to continue making cards and not have an inventory build up. Worked out pretty well so decided to approach a few more businesses. Well it got to a point in a very short time that it became work and stressful and the friends and family weren't the priority any longer. I decided that my priorities had to change back and am just making my cards for the garden center I work at. I'm very satisfied with the two prices I charge and I make what I want when I want. My employer's mom asked me to make some shower invitations (100) but I declined. She told me I had a year to make them but I get bored and sloppy after 3 duplicates (my max) so refused. Love what I'm doing now but will admit that Christmas is a very busy season for me. Which is a good thing because it gives me the chance to try and use the trillions of stamps and dies that own.
I both sew and stamp. I do make multiples, because then I have the cards on hand when I need them. I also make Prima doll tags for specific people.
I refuse to take cash from friends and family, but I never say no to being taken out to lunch. That way, I get to spend more time with them, and get "paid" a fair price. ;) It's a win-win.
__________________ Debbie "Make it work, people." - Tim Gunn My Gallery
For the past five years I have been making birthday cards for a Financial Planner to send to customers. They were well received by their clients. I would make about 50 a month of the same card. I charged $3.50 a card. With the understanding that payment was due in 30 days. Every year the cards became more detailed as I grew as a card maker.
This past year I was always calling asking for payment. When they became 90 days past due. I quit and gave them their last order for free. (Not sure that was a good idea, but I wanted to leave on a positive note.)
Their customers are missing my cards as they now buy $1.00 cards at the Dollar store which they have to pay for up front and go and pick them out. My cards were hand delivered each month.
Last edited by mapperlmutter; 11-26-2014 at 07:01 AM..
Reason: repeated a sentance
If the financial planner was anything like the financial planners I've done interior design work for, then they have PLENTY of money to pay you a fair price (which yours most definitely was - you should have charged more). I realize that there are exceptions to every rule, and generalizations are always dangerous, but -in MY experience - it's usually the ones that have a lot of money that gripe about spending it or that just plain won't.
If someone comes to YOU, requesting YOUR services, it seems to me that they must see value there. Why wouldn't they be willing to pay for it, then? That's the mystery we've been discussing throughout this whole thread...
This past year I was always calling asking for payment. When they became 90 days past due. I quit and gave them their last order for free. (Not sure that was a good idea, but I wanted to leave on a positive note.)
So you did not get paid for 3 months and you still gave them another month's worth free? I sure hope I'm misunderstanding that, LOL
So you did not get paid for 3 months and you still gave them another month's worth free? I sure hope I'm misunderstanding that, LOL
I did get paid for the last 3 months. Then I started to work on the order for the next 6 months of cards. I finished the first month of this order and delivered them. As it got closer to the deadline for the second month,I had not started them. This was the point that I realized this was not who I wanted to create for anymore. This is the point that I gave them a month free. Wanted to leave on a good note.
I once worked with a young man interning to become a financial analyst. He LOVED agriculture, and put himself through school mowing lawns and designing/planting gardens. I asked him why he didn't start his own business. He said he wanted to but discovered that people didn't pay. He said his wealthier clients were the worst. So sad.
__________________ Debbie "Make it work, people." - Tim Gunn My Gallery
The "creative arts" are not the only area suffering from devaluation - it's pretty much anything done "by hand". My husband is a mason, and an incredibly gifted and skilled one, and the true craftsmen are being pushed out by the contractors that just want it done fast - no matter how scabbed together - and don't want to pay anything. What he is capable of is quickly becoming a lost art. For example, those beautiful walls made from field stone with no mortar in them (dry-laid is the proper term) takes some engineering knowledge as well as the ability to execute, and I can't name a single mason besides my husband who knows how to do this! I can't tell you how many jobsites he's been called in on to consult, then had his suggestions nixed because it would take too long. The result is shabby work that has to be re-done in a few years, rather than a beautiful structure that lasts for decades or even centuries... Oh - and he's been unemployed for much of the past year because no one wants to pay for skilled labor. They'll pay through the nose for a doctor or lawyer or IT tech or whatever, but can any of them build you a house? Or fix the one you have? The skilled trades are largely devalued because the focus has turned to paying people for what they do with their head, and not what they do with their hands. (Can you tell I've copped a bit of resentment on this particular issue?) Thanks for listening to my little rant...
I was a teacher for most of my adult life until I retired. It seems people have the same idea about that, too. I know that teacher's pay is not up to the individual parents whose children are in the class, but it is the general opinion of society that teachers don't need to be paid as much as other professionals because they love it so much. I truly loved teaching and in order to do a good job I was at work hours before and after school as well as most of the weekend, and that didn't count all the hours at home grading papers, planning lessons and designing bulletin boards. And don't get me started on the, "Yes, but they get 3 months vacation and holidays off" thing. Bull! Most teachers take classes on their own buck during the summer instead of taking the barely 2 month break to rest up from an increasingly difficult and stressing job that takes more than 10 years to pay back the tuition for. Sorry about hijacking this thread, but there are many professions that are devalued and most are done by women!
I'm also interested in photography and I've read lots about valuing your work. They mentioned that when you don't chArge enough, you devalue your products and abilities. I don't know that this applies to cards but they said when you up your prices, your perceived value goes up so people will pay your prices (within reason and as long as the final product is good quality.
__________________ RebeccaEdnie Mixed Media Artist, Paper Crafter, Jewelry Designer SCSDirtyDozenAlumni Www.Boxofchocolatescrafts.Com YouNeverKnowWhatI’mGoingtoMake
I'm also interested in photography and I've read lots about valuing your work. They mentioned that when you don't chArge enough, you devalue your products and abilities. I don't know that this applies to cards but they said when you up your prices, your perceived value goes up so people will pay your prices (within reason and as long as the final product is good quality.
This is so true. Undervaluing your time and skill (in many fields) is a killer because then ppl don't think it's worth anything.
I made a covered notebook as a gift for a friend and showed it to a colleague. She loved it so asked me to do one for her. I didn't know how much to sell it for (felt bad as the costs weren't high) but luckily she refused to pay less than �5 for it. Because of that, I was able to offer another two for sale to another friend at the same price, and she paid without blinking.
This was a salutory lesson! Going to do a Christmas market next month and am now considering charging more for the goodies I'll have on sale. Say I only sell 20% of what I make regardless of price point, I'd rather get a higher price per unit than lower...!
good way of looking at things....been watching alot videos or facebook live videos and can just imagine the time and editing that goes into all of that...but then you have some that are learning the technology and spend most of the time adjusting their cameras just to make sure the shot or videos are being done correctly---my thought to that is go to a class and learn your camera features, that way when you are live, you aren't constantly twiddling with you phone and asking the audience can you see me, am I straight....... just my 25 cents
Years ago I used to make custom wedding invitations using quilling. It was fun and I enjoyed it. Made enough cash to support my habit and what I thought my work was worth. Even did some life-time certificates for different organizations. Last fall I went to a craft show at our local Canadian Legion. They had a special tribute to some of their dedicated ladies who had passed and what should I see but a few of the certificates I had made for them. I can tell you I was surprised and pleased that they saw fit to include them in the display. I don't do much custom work anymore...I realized that as soon as you have to create something to order...it suddenly becomes WORK! LOL Now it's just for FUN!!
