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[QUOTE=GrammaPixel;14545192]Excuse me for borrowing your Post :p:p......... You made a great point..... In the end there will be no winners in this....... So damage control needs to be set in motion
Why not make a group agreement, that when the "friends" meet, everyone is expected to bring at least ONE new stamp...... cite the current economy and the need to stretch crafting budgets......... ONE stamp is very affordable if a person can afford all the other material that go along with this great hobby
I LOVED YOUR CAKE EXAMPLE.......... thank you for posting a great analogy
BTW if my friend won baking contests, I would ask her to help me be a better baker and share her skills and talents with me....... I would be happy for her successes not jealous and/or envious :-)[/QUOTE]
Which is an excellent idea! I would start asking her how she would use the images, and take notes. If she's willing to share her hints and ideas that make everyone better, it's a win. If not, then I would re-evaluate how your group's dynamics work.
I just wish that I had a group to stamp with. :oops:
Seriously though, if the other ladies are bothered by it, then it's a problem whether I think it should be or not. And the best thing to do is address it in a way that minimizes the hurt feelings. You may also want to do it in private because the borrower is either going to be totally blindsided that people feel like this, OR very defensive and indignant about what she is doing (true users get really upset when people call them out on it).
Good luck. I share freely with no strings attached. However, I can see how it might be frustrating to the other ladies. They invest a significant part of their stamping budget into stamps which are non-consumable. If the other lady uses their stamps, it frees up her budget for fancy paper and embellishments that ARE consumable and not expected to be shared.
I guess I'm in the minority with my opinion on the situation but here it is:
I feel that when someone loans out a stamp set or gives away a stamped image, the borrower should be able to do with them as she pleases. I know that in this craft it's constantly stressed to give credit where it's due, but it becomes a bit much when we expect "credit" for simply owning a stamp. It's not like she's stealing an original design or original artwork. One of my favorite things about cardmaking is the whole sharing aspect of it. I understand that some may be upset that this person is taking advantage of others' purchases, but then why is there a distinction between using the images for private use versus putting the card up on a blog? I guess the bottom line is that if they are uncomfortable with any type of use of the image, they should find a way to say no next time.
Ditto... I just don't see the big deal about someone using the images that they received to do whatever they want with. Maybe the people who leant the stamp sets or stamped the images for this person are jealous because she is doing creative things with them and they are not. If they don't want her to have the images, then they shouldn't give them out. Sounds pretty petty to me though.
Live is short, don't sweat the small stuff! I don't see the problem. I share my stamps and fully made cards. I go into the schools and let the kids use them.Any of my friends or customers can come over and share in my craft space. I have one lady that asks me to not stamp my name on the back of a card so people will think she made it. Who cares...in the big scheme of things, I think the only thing that matters is we are growing ,sharing and playing together. Sorry if I sound unsympathetic, but who knows what tomorrow brings. Enjoy today.
Live is short, don't sweat the small stuff! I don't see the problem. I share my stamps and fully made cards. I go into the schools and let the kids use them.Any of my friends or customers can come over and share in my craft space. I have one lady that asks me to not stamp my name on the back of a card so people will think she made it. Who cares...in the big scheme of things, I think the only thing that matters is we are growing ,sharing and playing together. Sorry if I sound unsympathetic, but who knows what tomorrow brings. Enjoy today.
I don't see the problem ... if she posts to her blog or wins contests with them, who cares? If they don't like it, stop giving her stamped images then.
I don't see the problem. If a group of friends get together and borrow each other's stuff, what's the big deal if one of the friends wins a contest or blogs the stuff she made using the stamps.
Does this friend only borrow? If the friend never lends to the others and only takes then I would have a problem with this friend. The contest winning or blogging wouldn't matter to me, it would be the lack of contribution to the group that would be the problem.
i GUESS THE ISSUE IS THAT THEY FEEL THEY ARE BEING TAKEN ADVANTAGE OF THEY BUY STMAPS FROM ALL OVER THE WORLD, AND THEY BUY LOTS OF THEM, AND THE ARE EASY TO ORDER. AND THEY THINK THAT THEY SOULD JUST ASK BEFORE USING THEM FOR CONTESTS OR BLOGING, THEY HAVE NO PROBLEMS WITH USING THEM ON PERSONAL CARDS OR SCRAPBOOKING. I GUESS THEY FEELL TAKEN ADVANTAGE OF, AND UNAPPRCIATED. THEY ARE ALL GREAT GIRLS! WE ALL SHARE OUR STAMPS, SOME JUST TAKE THE BORROWING TO THE EXTREME. WE HAVE ALL BEEN SCRAPBOOING TOGETHER FOR YEARS AND IT IS CAUSING TENSION. WHAT WE NEED FOR OUR CLUB OF ABOUT 16 IS A STAMPING EDIQUETTE I GUESS! SO EVERYONE CAN WORK TOGETHER AND NOT FEEL TAKEN ADVANTAGE OF.
That's the problem! 16 women! If it were men, the first time one of them felt taken advantage of by the one who won a contest using one of their stamps they would have immediately said to the woman "Hey, that was my stamp you used to win that contest! Where's my share of the loot?" (I cleaned up the language for us femine folk.) And the whole issue would be dealt with and forgotten immediately.
Women can just be so afraid of conflict that they create a huge drama fest over things that are so small! Just mention to the women privately, not in front of everybody, that you've noticed that she hasn't been bringing any new stamps to the meetings. Ask if she is having any problems with sharing her new stamps? If she is, maybe she'll tell you about the problem. If she does have a problem that is reasonable, ask her if it is ok to share it with the others so they will understand also.
If she doesn't have a problem, she will know that she is expected to contribute also. Then if other members still complain about her winning contests and she is contributing, tell them they are just being jealous and should be watching and learning from her!
Honey, this is a no win situation. I think if you talk to her and it is nice she will still be hurt and affronted. I think when the problem began the damage was done.
Does she share other things with you? Is it the monetary reasons you are concerned about? If she does not have a lot of stamps due to lack of space for example she might choose too share cardstock for stamped images. The trade is legal and she can do what she wants with the stamped image. If she won money with her creation the girls feel a bit jealous. I bet she would feel the same if you won a contest using her designer paper she traded for a Sugar Nellie.
Now, if she is just taking stamped images and there is nothing in return or the trade's are not fair such as 50 stamped images for a few sheets of cheap card stock then you do have an issue that needs to be addressed because you are being taken advantage of.
When addressing the girl find the one in your group who is most diplomatic to handle the situation. I wish you the best of luck. Keep us updated.
Here is what I sent out to my club to hopefully help the issure for the ladies involved.
Scrapbooking & Card Making Etiquette
�The idea is there, locked inside, and all you have to do is remove the excess and make it your own.�
"A candle looses none of its light
By lighting another candle."
1. Do use layouts/cards found on blogs or in scrap books to expand your scrapbooking horizons. I know for a fact that there are certain color combinations or picture taking techniques that I would never have tried on my own if I hadn�t seen them in use elsewhere, like our beloved Close to MY Heart Scrapbooking books, and all the blogs we follow. Scrapbooking is a creative activity, and sometimes we just need to be inspired by others. Seeing different techniques, arrangements and creative ideas can help you stretch your wings a bit and work outside of your comfort zone. And when you do that, you�ll be surprised at what you can create! All of our talents are different.
2. Do give credit where credit is due. If you are posting your page/card on a blog or in a contest, and were inspired by another person�s layout or card, let the community know! As long as you haven�t outright copied, the original person is sure to be flattered. Who doesn�t like a little celebrity?
3. Analyze the layout/card and ask yourself what you really like about it. What draws your attention to the page? Is it the contrast between the size of the photo and the title? Is it the additional embellishments like stamps and ribbon? If you can identify what elements are speaking to you, you might not need to copy at all. In the past, when I�ve taken the time to analyze why I�m drawn to a particular layout, I�ve discovered a way to make that same element totally me and totally original. It�s worth a shot!
4. I have noticed lately that when people have borrowed my stamps that they have asked before they post their page/card on their blog or used it in any other public forum, and gave a little �thanks to my friend� on their blog. I really appreciated that, and I think it is something we should all try and do! It makes the lender feel appreciated, and gives the borrower confidence to know they can use the pattern or image in a public forum.
__________________ Kelli, Kcustom Designs
For Close to My Heart Products
Email [email protected]
VERY nicely said. I like #2 and #4, especially. That was what I was trying to say. We have to be polite and give credit and/or thanks to the people who "helped" in some way, whether it was lending us the set or the fact that we got an idea based on someone else's idea, layout or card design. After all, when we were in school, we used footnotes, which is basically siting our sources and giving credit to someone, so why not carry the idea over into our personal lives with our friends.
As you stated, people like to be given a little "pat on the back" and be shown a little appreciation.
Good luck and let's hope the person it is meant for "gets the message" and does not get upset. Let's hope that all of you remain friends.
__________________ "The smallest feline is a masterpiece".... Leonardo da Vince
I'm sorry, but I think that #4 goes a little too far. If I am reading it correctly, you are saying that if you are using a borrowed stamp/image, that you should first ask the owner of the stamp before you post it anywhere? I think that if I received this memo in a group I was part of, I would have to kindly leave the group.
What a catty group of ladies if I have to ask permission to post my own work on my own personal blog just because I borrowed someone's stamp! I think that asking for recognition just because you happened to own the stamp is very silly and childish too. What do you get out of it other than being able to be smug about the fact that you own the stamp and she doesn't? I think your group as a whole has a lot of growing up to do and you should all be looking in the mirror first to find a solution.
I may be missing something here as I have'nt read each and every opinion on this subject but I thought "share & share alike" were one of the primary reasons for being in a club in the first place?
Personally I am not a member of any club but if I did ever join it would be on the understanding that other members could freely use my stash - even "stuff" such as brads, ribbon etc which you can hardly ask for back!
If you start feeling resentful for another member's so-called "taking advantage" where does it end? Do you eventually get to the point where you ask for the ink back if you have loaned someone say a jelly-roll pen?!
Again, I would repeat that I don't know the people or the full circumstances but from the bit I have read it does appear that the lenders may be a little envious of the fact that the borrower has got the gumption to actually submit designs for comps/blogs anyway?!
If it were me and someone used my stamp for such a purpose and win, I could think of no better motivation to get my creative backside in gear and try to beat her!
Just one final thought..... The lenders are obviously very fortunate to be in a position to continue to update their stamping stash from "around the world" maybe, just maybe the the borrower cannot afford to financially, which brings me neatly back to my first point. That being the very reason she joined the club in the first place?! You read any stamping/crafters mag and you can always find in the "top tips" section, the suggestion to join a club not only for the social aspect but also in order to widen your access to crafty stash you may not otherwise be able to get hold of or afford. This is never truer when you use the example of die-cutting machines.
Imagine this scenario...... You all pitch in within the club to buy the latest and very expensive machine which you all have access to but could not afford singly. Do you then regulate how many die-cuts a member can produce from it? I think not.
I will close by saying that I was really surprised to read this thread as I would never have imagined a true crafter could feel this way about a fellow crafty member. I guess I am just foolishly naive?
I disagree with #4 also, when you are meeting as a group and passing things to each other, a thank you should be given then, but to sit at a club meeting and have to take notes that Betty loaned me the Apple Stamp and Susie loaned me the Flower stamp and Trixie gave me glue dot........ and then to have to remember sometimes weeks or months later that these people need to be given a byline everytime i post the card........ no way........ soon people will expect their name to be listed on the back of the card....... like the lines in movie credits... too much tension and PC in your group, I would find the fun gone
If this was a group of men, the situation would have been handled on the spot, i see a lot of drama in your group and petty jealously
One poster said how she wished she had someone to share this hobby with, I feel the same way....... I would gladly let my friends use any materials or equipment I have if we shared this interest.... You all have no idea how fortunate you are to have a large group who likes to meet and share, I hate to see common jealously and pettiness break the group apart
I guess I'm in the minority with my opinion on the situation but here it is:
I feel that when someone loans out a stamp set or gives away a stamped image, the borrower should be able to do with them as she pleases. I know that in this craft it's constantly stressed to give credit where it's due, but it becomes a bit much when we expect "credit" for simply owning a stamp. It's not like she's stealing an original design or original artwork. One of my favorite things about cardmaking is the whole sharing aspect of it. I understand that some may be upset that this person is taking advantage of others' purchases, but then why is there a distinction between using the images for private use versus putting the card up on a blog? I guess the bottom line is that if they are uncomfortable with any type of use of the image, they should find a way to say no next time.
I'm thinking along these lines, too...
__________________ My Avatar = Me at Providence Regionals, pointing at my swap on the display board, submitted at Convention 2006!
The OP has not, at any point in this thread, given any details other than the fact that some people are mad that a certain member is using results that started with an image from a borrowed stamp on her blog and in contests.
The ideas of money issues, or who brings what to the monthly meetings, or why the other members might feel upset are all fabrications from the fertile imaginations of the rest of the posters on this thread.
So, all we really know is that LadyX borrows a stamp at the monthly club meeting, makes something with the image she stamped, then uses what she made on her blog or to enter a contest, and the other club members are unhappy with her over it.
Also, it is ok to used a borrowed stamp image for a "personal card or scrapbook page".
Well, PFUI!!!! (Nero Wolfe's favorite expression of disgust and disdain at blatent stupidity.)
What a bunch of petty, imbecilic, juvenile, puerile, RIDICULOUS women!
It's ok to borrow a stamp as long as almost no one sees what you do with it, but if you get any public credit with a borrowed stamp, then that's not fair!
Reminds me of a nasty teenager whose Mom shared her previous year's prom gown in a swap (you wear mine from last year, I wear Joanie's, if Katie cannot afford one she can wear Mary's, etc). Everytime someone admired Susie in her dress that year, little Miss Nasty had to make sure to tell everyone "that's *MY* dress from last year she's wearing".
I am SO GLAD that I am not part of this stamping group- and would walk out promptly if any group I was in ever starting thinking like this.
Stamps are not like adhesives. They are not consumable. They are not going to wear out. As a CTMH demo I will take my entire collection to a crop and I could care less if they stamp the night away. I also purchase whiff of joy stamps and will stamp out images for a friend because the stamps at $8 a piece are not in her budget. It gives me joy to be able to share. If they win something or post on their blog as a result of my generosity I am happy for them. I would rather someone I know win than someone I don't know. I guess i dont see the big deal at all. Maybe the money is needed elsewhere in their budget. Maybe they are buying papers instead and cant afford to do both. maybe they dont buy stamps cause their friends already own the sets they really like.
__________________ So far in 2010 i've made 1 card 0 layouts. go me!
Thanks for all your comments ladies, good and bad I agree with most of your points, and I am stuck in the middle, and hopefully it will all blow over.
Being stuck in the middle is never a good place. I would try to get out of that spot as soon as possible! Same thing applies in management, if one employee is having an issue with another and wants me to go to the third person, the solution is for all three of us to sit together to talk about the problem. It's amazing how fast some of those problems go away.
Why did your group get together to begin with? I am part of a group that meets monthly and first and foremost reason for getting together was to share a hobby that we love with people that enjoy it as much as we do. Sharing information was important. Sharing stamps and things are fun too but have never been the focus of the group. Don't get me wrong, we do swap and share images and some of us are bloggers and have even won contests. I think since our focus is the friendship, no one has an issue to see a stamp that we purchased on someone else's blog. And if my friend wins stamps using one of my stamps, guess what? She's going to share that with me!
Our core group stays the same but we welcome anyone that wants to visit and learn. We have had people brand new to the hobby that had nothing to offer at first, other than their friendship and the desire to stamp with us. And that's okay. Several of us in the group have jobs (or their husbands do) that vary according to the time of the year. I buy almost nothing during the summer since my income is lower during the summer. Others have the same problem at different times of the year. It all evens out in the end.
I would LOVE to loan someone a stamp and for THEM to come up with a design and do the work and effort to get into a contest or put it on their blog.....the stamp is important but the design of the card is so much more....the elements and content help tell the story of the *stamp*....
I loan all of my stamps out and have given alot of them away.....right now trying to get a business going I'm spending more time on my 1st charitable event than anything..
I hope and pray that my new scrap club does not get like this...I'm sorry but I think there is alot of jealousy there....
I'm sorry you were caught in the middle...I would of explained to them that as adults we have to deal with it as such....out in the open...
Good luck to you....and I hope people continue to share their stamps so others can get as much delight in them as I do and if they win a contest CONGRATS to them!!!!...I may even give them the stamp!...lol
Here is what I sent out to my club to hopefully help the issure for the ladies involved.
Scrapbooking & Card Making Etiquette
“The idea is there, locked inside, and all you have to do is remove the excess and make it your own.”
"A candle looses none of its light
By lighting another candle."
1. Do use layouts/cards found on blogs or in scrap books to expand your scrapbooking horizons. I know for a fact that there are certain color combinations or picture taking techniques that I would never have tried on my own if I hadn’t seen them in use elsewhere, like our beloved Close to MY Heart Scrapbooking books, and all the blogs we follow. Scrapbooking is a creative activity, and sometimes we just need to be inspired by others. Seeing different techniques, arrangements and creative ideas can help you stretch your wings a bit and work outside of your comfort zone. And when you do that, you’ll be surprised at what you can create! All of our talents are different.
2. Do give credit where credit is due. If you are posting your page/card on a blog or in a contest, and were inspired by another person’s layout or card, let the community know! As long as you haven’t outright copied, the original person is sure to be flattered. Who doesn’t like a little celebrity?
3. Analyze the layout/card and ask yourself what you really like about it. What draws your attention to the page? Is it the contrast between the size of the photo and the title? Is it the additional embellishments like stamps and ribbon? If you can identify what elements are speaking to you, you might not need to copy at all. In the past, when I’ve taken the time to analyze why I’m drawn to a particular layout, I’ve discovered a way to make that same element totally me and totally original. It’s worth a shot!
4. I have noticed lately that when people have borrowed my stamps that they have asked before they post their page/card on their blog or used it in any other public forum, and gave a little “thanks to my friend” on their blog. I really appreciated that, and I think it is something we should all try and do! It makes the lender feel appreciated, and gives the borrower confidence to know they can use the pattern or image in a public forum.
Seriously? Especially #4? How old are the people in your group? It sounds like you're running a day care center. I'm so glad that the people I scrapbook and stamp with are above all of this petty stuff. I wish you lots of luck with this bunch, but I would let them handle their own "issues."
Kelli,
I do hope that this all blows over for you when you next meet.
In fact, I almost think you shouldn't even address the issue.
As the "middle" person, you've listened, but that doesn't mean you have to take sides, or even solve the problem. These are adults you're suppose to be dealing with.
Good luck in whatever you decide to do.
""What a bunch of petty, imbecilic, juvenile, puerile, RIDICULOUS women!
It's ok to borrow a stamp as long as almost no one sees what you do with it, but if you get any public credit with a borrowed stamp, then that's not fair!
Reminds me of a nasty teenager whose Mom shared her previous year's prom gown in a swap (you wear mine from last year, I wear Joanie's, if Katie cannot afford one she can wear Mary's, etc). Everytime someone admired Susie in her dress that year, little Miss Nasty had to make sure to tell everyone "that's *MY* dress from last year she's wearing".
I am SO GLAD that I am not part of this stamping group- and would walk out promptly if any group I was in ever starting thinking like this.""
............. credited to tchk :-)
You dont mince words (i like that)............ I spent 32 years working with moody Junior High girls, dont get me wrong I loved it and was great at it or I would not have lasted a week, But you expressed how i see this situation beautifully........... One is only in the middle, because they allow themselves to be, btw
Go back to having fun and sharing, that makes for a great hobby, dont make a drama out of it
Last edited by GrammaPixel; 07-07-2009 at 06:50 AM..
Here is what I sent out to my club to hopefully help the issure for the ladies involved.
Scrapbooking & Card Making Etiquette
�The idea is there, locked inside, and all you have to do is remove the excess and make it your own.�
"A candle looses none of its light
By lighting another candle."
1. Do use layouts/cards found on blogs or in scrap books to expand your scrapbooking horizons. I know for a fact that there are certain color combinations or picture taking techniques that I would never have tried on my own if I hadn�t seen them in use elsewhere, like our beloved Close to MY Heart Scrapbooking books, and all the blogs we follow. Scrapbooking is a creative activity, and sometimes we just need to be inspired by others. Seeing different techniques, arrangements and creative ideas can help you stretch your wings a bit and work outside of your comfort zone. And when you do that, you�ll be surprised at what you can create! All of our talents are different.
2. Do give credit where credit is due. If you are posting your page/card on a blog or in a contest, and were inspired by another person�s layout or card, let the community know! As long as you haven�t outright copied, the original person is sure to be flattered. Who doesn�t like a little celebrity?
3. Analyze the layout/card and ask yourself what you really like about it. What draws your attention to the page? Is it the contrast between the size of the photo and the title? Is it the additional embellishments like stamps and ribbon? If you can identify what elements are speaking to you, you might not need to copy at all. In the past, when I�ve taken the time to analyze why I�m drawn to a particular layout, I�ve discovered a way to make that same element totally me and totally original. It�s worth a shot!
4. I have noticed lately that when people have borrowed my stamps that they have asked before they post their page/card on their blog or used it in any other public forum, and gave a little �thanks to my friend� on their blog. I really appreciated that, and I think it is something we should all try and do! It makes the lender feel appreciated, and gives the borrower confidence to know they can use the pattern or image in a public forum.
How old are these women that you feel they need this? Seriously? I'm amazed at the pettiness of all of this. 4 really gets me.
Perhaps you just need to make a rule that there will be no sharing of stamps, images, ideas, inspiration. etc, etc., so no one gets their feelings hurt.
But if you do that, then you really don't need a group to meet and share. This is so silly. As others have said, way too much drama, especially over stamped images, blogs, and contests.
As adults, the person or people who are upset need to go directly to Betty Borrower, like an adult, and talk about how they feel and why. All this talking about it behind her back is juvenile and petty.
I have a group of about 8 of us that love to get together at least once a month normally at my place to stamp and just socialize...I share everything I have with them with no strings attached. They would do the same thing and do if they have something I would like to have. They know they are welcome to go to my stamping room and help themselves to anything I have...stamps paper embellisments, tools...my view is that PEOPLE are much more important than things and I love all these ladies. I hope this all works out for you. blessings.
The OP has not, at any point in this thread, given any details other than the fact that some people are mad that a certain member is using results that started with an image from a borrowed stamp on her blog and in contests.
This is what I want to know... Is the offending member participating in the group by sharing her own stamps or is she simply showing up and using the other member's stamps?
This is what I want to know... Is the offending member participating in the group by sharing her own stamps or is she simply showing up and using the other member's stamps?
me too. i keep checking back to this thread looking for some sort of clarification on the borrower.
You know what I think I would have sent to all the members who are complaining instead of number 4.....
Girls, if the worst thing that ever happens in your life is someone borrows a stamp and doesn't give you credit for that in their blog, well then.... you have a GREAT LIFE. They need this put in perspective for them. Maybe the should think of all the other horrible things that happen in ones life and be thankful this is their BIG problem.
I just thought of this - Personally I would not give credit for a stamped image that I used to make a card. That is all it is - a stamped image - outline of something in black.
The borrower had to color it in, create a card herself with no influence or help from anyone. I really think asking for credit for a stamped image is going to far. Anyone can buy these stamps. They are not rare or anything. If anyone should get credit , it should be artist that designed the stamp to begin with for these women to buy.
