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OP here. I don't believe in borrowing trouble either. However, due to the upcoming changes I'll be losing a trusted, intelligent, creative woman as my demo and that IS negative for me.
Ditto. I found out last weekend that my demo is quitting, because of the upcoming changes. She didn't say exactly what those were, but I can tell you that the main reason I order from Stampin' Up is because of her. Once she's finished, I'll be spending a lot more time checking out some of the other companies.
Also, a question - if the hostess benefits are indeed changing, how soon are they letting customers know? I know of a lot of people in stamp clubs - where people commit to a year of membership, agree to order a certain amount each per month and take turns being hostess. If I were in one of those clubs, I'd be right peeved if I was a hostess on one of the last months and got way less in hostess benefits than hostess of the first months. And I'd feel like I was brought into the club kind of under false pretenses If I didn't know about the changes before the club started up.
Customer stuff doesn't really change that much. The changes will affect us Demo's!
Well, I consider a 40% decrease in hostess benefits a BIG change that does significantly affect me as a customer. Apparently at Leadership they told demos that customers would be happy to continue buying despite the reduced hostess rewards because customers so enjoy getting together with friends to stamp and learn about new products. If that is the case, I'm afraid SU doesn't quite have a handle on a good percentage of their customer base. I do not like "workshops". I refuse to go to them any more and so do my friends and family. With all the blogs and videos out there, we are perfectly capable of educating ourselves on new products without attending a workshop. I save up my "wish list" until I have enough to place an on-line order on my demo's website that qualifies for at least the $25 hostess benefits. Reducing the hostess benefit levels takes money out of my pocket and increases my overall cost. I count on the stamping rewards to offset SU's outrageous shipping fees. The $15 "reward" won't cover my shipping and taxes any more so the overall cost of the order would go up if I were to ever order again.
I have loved SU for years and have over 600 SU stamp sets plus bookcases of their consumables, but in my opinion, there are so many other fabulous stamp companies with comparable stamps and consumables who offer free shipping at a certain purchase level much lower than the SU hostess reward level, I'm afraid SU won't have much to offer me anymore.
Well, I consider a 40% decrease in hostess benefits a BIG change that does significantly affect me as a customer. Apparently at Leadership they told demos that customers would be happy to continue buying despite the reduced hostess rewards because customers so enjoy getting together with friends to stamp and learn about new products. If that is the case, I'm afraid SU doesn't quite have a handle on a good percentage of their customer base. I do not like "workshops". I refuse to go to them any more and so do my friends and family. With all the blogs and videos out there, we are perfectly capable of educating ourselves on new products without attending a workshop. I save up my "wish list" until I have enough to place an on-line order on my demo's website that qualifies for at least the $25 hostess benefits. Reducing the hostess benefit levels takes money out of my pocket and increases my overall cost. I count on the stamping rewards to offset SU's outrageous shipping fees. The $15 "reward" won't cover my shipping and taxes any more so the overall cost of the order would go up if I were to ever order again.
I have loved SU for years and have over 600 SU stamp sets plus bookcases of their consumables, but in my opinion, there are so many other fabulous stamp companies with comparable stamps and consumables who offer free shipping at a certain purchase level much lower than the SU hostess reward level, I'm afraid SU won't have much to offer me anymore.
I understand your frustration, but just from curiosity, do the other companies offer any benefits when you place a large order? I'm honestly not trying to be contentious. I really don't know. I'm also curious about your description of outrageous shipping fees. $15 for $150 in purchases doesn't seem as outrageous as a lot of company's rates.
I understand your frustration, but just from curiosity, do the other companies offer any benefits when you place a large order? I'm honestly not trying to be contentious. I really don't know. I'm also curious about your description of outrageous shipping fees. $15 for $150 in purchases doesn't seem as outrageous as a lot of company's rates.
Two that come to mind just off the top of my head are Gina K, and My Favorite Things. Both companies offer reasonable shipping (Gina K is $6.95 for orders up to $50 and free shipping on orders over $50; MFT is $6.95 for orders up to $75 and free shipping on orders over $75) and both companies offer incentive items: Gina K's start with a $25 and MFT with a $60 order. Granted, you don't get to choose the items, they are what they are for that month, but I definitely would call those benefits with a large order. As a matter of fact, I can think of very few stamping companies that don't offer free shipping on an order as large as $150. That in itself is a benefit. MFT also offers "shop to save" discounts that start at 10% for a $100 order. Even my local stamp shop, where I do not expect discounts and deals, gives me a savings card so that after I spend x amount of $$, I get $15 off my next purchase.
I'm not saying that a company should be expected to offer freebies or free shipping for big orders. However, Stampin' Up is set up under the "party plan" business model - and part of that business model is that part of the way that someone is convinced to host a party and invite their friends and hopefully get them to order stuff is to offer incentives to that hostess.
Wanted to add - I don't necessarily think that $15 shipping on $150 is outrageous. I have other non-stamping companies that I order from occasionally that have similar charges. (However, those companies do offer free shipping or reduced shipping promos often enough that I can wait to place my order until one of those promos comes around.) With Stampin' Up's business model, they are assuming that orders of $150 and more are for parties, which assumes multiple people's orders combined into one large order. They have to have a way to charge each customer at the party in an equitable way; giving a flat % rate for shipping is probably the least confusing way to handle it.
I do think, though, that as the order gets bigger, the 10% becomes more outrageous. A $300 party totals up to $30 shipping charges? There's a company in the UK with stencils and stamps that I lust for, and I can have my order shipped from them for under $15 no matter the size of the order. And that's crossing an ocean!
Sounds like I will placing an order before the changes take effect - ordering cardstock, ink, reinkers and ribbons in the colors I am getting low on because it does not sound beneficial to me after the changes. I place $150+ order so I can get the hostess goodies. Lately, SU stamps have not interested me and I get frustrated every time I use the clear mount stamps - I have trouble with them falling off my acrylic blocks while trying to ink them up!
Sorry to say - I think this is a bad move for SU.
Sounds like I will placing an order before the changes take effect - ordering cardstock, ink, reinkers and ribbons in the colors I am getting low on because it does not sound beneficial to me after the changes. I place $150+ order so I can get the hostess goodies. Lately, SU stamps have not interested me and I get frustrated every time I use the clear mount stamps - I have trouble with them falling off my acrylic blocks while trying to ink them up!
Sorry to say - I think this is a bad move for SU.
As far as the clear stamps falling off your acrylic blocks.
Something I did.....I placed the indexing cling inside my storage box.
And I stamp without the indexing on the stamp. I don't have any problem with them falling off.
Sounds like I will placing an order before the changes take effect - ordering cardstock, ink, reinkers and ribbons in the colors I am getting low on because it does not sound beneficial to me after the changes. I place $150+ order so I can get the hostess goodies. Lately, SU stamps have not interested me and I get frustrated every time I use the clear mount stamps - I have trouble with them falling off my acrylic blocks while trying to ink them up!
Sorry to say - I think this is a bad move for SU.
Also, a question - if the hostess benefits are indeed changing, how soon are they letting customers know?
I think they are leaving it up to demos to inform their customers.
As far as the reduction in hostess benefits, there are numbers behind the decision making. The increase in hostess benefits actually did not increase sales or workshops so they have decided to reduce the benefits.
It makes me sad that demos are up and quitting before even trying to work their business under the new changes. It kind of reminds me of the Don't quit poem, specifically this part:
<dt>Success is failure turned inside out -</dt><dt>The silver tint in the clouds of doubt,</dt><dt>And you never can tell how close you are,</dt><dt>It might be near when it seems afar;</dt><dt>So stick to the fight when you're hardest hit -</dt><dt>It's when things seem worst that you must not quit.</dt>
__________________ Shellie G
Aspire to be a better person than you were yesterday
I will say, change is hard. Nobody likes change. It takes awhile to adapt and understand all the changes. Some demos may leave, but we will gain new demos as well. I will be sad to see demos go but I believe that those leaving are choosing to do so because it is the best decision for them.
Many demos are sticking around! So there will still be a SU and still be SU demos! I have read the changes, some will affect me, some will not, and still think SU is great, great product, great company! I became a demo because I believe the products to be top notch!
I encourage customers that want to know how the new hostess program will work to call/email their demo. That way your demo can take the time to explain them to you with all the pluses and minuses, and you can brainstorm together how to make the most out of the new program.
Yes out of your own pocket. But remember you're running your own business. And sometimes giving something a little extra is a good thing.
Your customer will remember you. And will shop with you more.
Treat your customer the way you'd like to be treated!!
Why not have stuff on hand to give your customer's as an extra goody?
It's not like you need to break the bank.
example: Hostess Bennies $15.00 add a ink pad for $6.95 and maybe some embellishments for $3.95 = $25.90
Think of creative ways to share with your customer's!!
PS: You as a demo are getting 20% off what you buy.
I place a $150 order. My demo's cut is what? 20%? So that's $30.
Now you're suggesting she spend 8.72 (10.90-20%) to make me feel better as a customer about the lowered rewards. That makes her take from my order 21.28, which drops her commission to 14%. And doesn't make me any happier because if I wanted ink and embellishments, I already ordered it.
Emily, you forgot one important thing..... SU makes money on the $150 order AND the $10.90 the demo gave away. Win, win? For who?
If I were inclined to run a club (which I am not) I would ask the members if they wanted the new 10% reward when it was their turn to host or if the whole group would rather have 20% off all their purchases every month and I would keep the rewards. I bet I know which one they would choose.
Yes, the profit would only be 10% in product for me but the customers would remember me and probably buy more.
This would not be a continous discount.... it is a special on club night.
As far as the reduction in hostess benefits, there are numbers behind the decision making. The increase in hostess benefits actually did not increase sales or workshops so they have decided to reduce the benefits.
I can't speak for everyone, but this line of thought totally rubs me the wrong way - and I don't mean your thought, beaddict, I mean Stampin'Up!'s line of thought. Almost everyone I know is on a budget - some stricter than others - and is relatively careful about where they spend their precious dollars. It's often like pulling teeth to make it to the $150 mark, let alone higher. I've been using SU! products for years (since 1995) and have watched the SAB offerings get smaller and fewer, watched the color changes happen more and more often, requiring more and more purchases to "stay current", wondered at the (in my mind) exorbitant pricing of dies, etc.
From what I understand, they are a debt-free business, so kudos to them for that. That makes it all the more bewildering to see them pass so little of that affluence down the line. If they own everything outright - the stamp-making and die-making equipment, for example - then why are their prices so high? And why do they have to cut into their base (i.e., demos and their customers) to increase profits rather than do right by said base?
I'm also somewhat mystified by the claim of "increased hostess benefits" - when did they increase? It's been the same for as far back as I can remember (but, I'm willing to admit that my memory is starting to go, what with senior moments becoming more frequent...)
In case anyone wants to get their knickers in a twist over this post, let me pro-actively calm you down: I LOVE SU! products and own an obscene number of the stamps, the complete line of cardstock and ink (In Colors included), most of the punches, and quite a bit of dp. I LOVE my demo and enjoyed attending her workshops and being in her club before I moved away. This mini-rant is just my frustration at watching a company I have long admired take what is, in my mind, a very mercenary "customer be damned" turn. It looks - again, to me, maybe not to you - like the divide between the "haves" and the "have nots" is getting wider here, too...
__________________ ~ Sue Happy for no reason...
Last edited by gregzgurl; 02-04-2015 at 08:01 PM..
If I were inclined to run a club (which I am not) I would ask the members if they wanted the new 10% reward when it was their turn to host or if the whole group would rather have 20% off all their purchases every month and I would keep the rewards. I bet I know which one they would choose.
That's an interesting choice. It makes me wonder if they are going to continue to offer hostess-exclusive sets, because my decision would totally depend on whether there are any hostess sets I want!
I'm also somewhat mystified by the claim of "increased hostess benefits" - when did they increase? It's been the same for as far back as I can remember (but, I'm willing to admit that my memory is starting to go, what with senior moments becoming more frequent...)
When I first started buying from SU, their hostess benefits were the special hostess stamps; they had different levels of stamps based on your party sales. I don't exactly remember the levels, but if you had a $150 party you only qualified for the smaller sets; in order to get the big sets you needed a $300 party. Those were the sets that I waited and bought used after they retired I think you also earned a 50% off item, but I don't remember the sales level for that. They revamped the program and now you earn hostess dollars to spend - if you spend them on the hostess sets, you get more bang for your buck. I remember being quite excited that with only a $150 party, I would be able to get the most "expensive" set if I wanted it. And it was a nice change to have options if none of the hostess sets appealed.
To be honest, the change in the hostess benefits isn't what is going to change my buying. But my demo leaving is definitely going to impact it. I had a different demo when I first started, and really didn't order a lot. But when she moved away and I started attending my current demo's 10 for 10's, her enthusiasm really drew me in. As far as her not trying to work her business with the changes, I never got the impression that she was trying to make SU a business - she has a very good full-time job. SU was something that she did to help fund her hobby, and with the changes coming, it's not worth it to her anymore. With the number of companies that now have matching cardstock and ink and embellishments (Gina K, MFT, Fun Stampers Journey, etc.) and all the dies that are out there at more reasonable price points, SU's product is no longer a big draw to me. It was all about the demo.
If I were inclined to run a club (which I am not) I would ask the members if they wanted the new 10% reward when it was their turn to host or if the whole group would rather have 20% off all their purchases every month and I would keep the rewards. I bet I know which one they would choose.
.
Please, if you are a customer do not ask your demo to do this. We are techniqually not supposed to offer a perpetual discount. Not to mention you would be taking away all of your demo's income.
When I first started buying from SU, their hostess benefits were the special hostess stamps; they had different levels of stamps based on your party sales. I don't exactly remember the levels, but if you had a $150 party you only qualified for the smaller sets; in order to get the big sets you needed a $300 party. Those were the sets that I waited and bought used after they retired I think you also earned a 50% off item, but I don't remember the sales level for that. They revamped the program and now you earn hostess dollars to spend - if you spend them on the hostess sets, you get more bang for your buck. I remember being quite excited that with only a $150 party, I would be able to get the most "expensive" set if I wanted it. And it was a nice change to have options if none of the hostess sets appealed.
To be honest, the change in the hostess benefits isn't what is going to change my buying. But my demo leaving is definitely going to impact it. I had a different demo when I first started, and really didn't order a lot. But when she moved away and I started attending my current demo's 10 for 10's, her enthusiasm really drew me in. As far as her not trying to work her business with the changes, I never got the impression that she was trying to make SU a business - she has a very good full-time job. SU was something that she did to help fund her hobby, and with the changes coming, it's not worth it to her anymore. With the number of companies that now have matching cardstock and ink and embellishments (Gina K, MFT, Fun Stampers Journey, etc.) and all the dies that are out there at more reasonable price points, SU's product is no longer a big draw to me. It was all about the demo.
Cheryl, thanks for your remarks. I think you speak for many of us who feel exactly the same. According to an earlier post, it's rumored SU believes no matter what they do in the way of increased prices, fewer benefits/reduced rewards, etc. we will continue to buy their products "because customers so enjoy getting together w/friends to stamp and learn about new products." This theory may be true in part -- I DO enjoy the get-togethers -- but my enjoyment is very demo-specific. If/when she's not around, who knows. As you stated, for me "it's all about the demo."
That is not what SU said at all. What they said was that based on the actual numbers sales did not increase, workshops did not increase, etc. when they increased the hostess benefits from 15 to 25. So based on research it didn't make a difference in customers buying habits. Su is very aware that demos make a huge difference in sales, which is why they spend what they do on training and things to encourage demos to be active good demos to their customers.
I'm a demo and for me it's definitely about the friendships because without my little business I would not have met the wonderful friends I now have. The changes SU is making won't make that big a difference to me or my customers because I don't have any volume shoppers nor do I run a club. What I'm going to say next is not to offend anyone but I felt I just have to say this. Most demos I know are not making a lot of money but they spend a boatload of time supporting their customers. Consider this when you think about what it take for a demo to do a club, workshop, or class:
It's a constant for demos to learn the products, the sales, and find new techniques that will wow their customers.
If they host, there is site prep to set up the workshop, possible travel time or housecleaning (ack)
Project design - how to offer the best project and make it cost effective and offer the latest and greatest techniques or styles, and still make it fun for the novice to experienced stamper.
Project setup is time consuming to make each packet not to mention having extras on hand for boo-boos.
Most demos use their own supplies so if a product is ruined they have to replace it from their funds. Just think how you would feel if your nice new Daffodil Delight pad was stamped with a stamp with black ink. We know it's part of the business, but it still stings.
Many demos offer treats of some kind which incur a cost and prep
If you order directly through their demo there is time involved in entering the order and of course a demo's job is to make things right so they handle returns.
We all love to browse the catalogs but they aren't free. We can earn them but many demos just pay for them with hopes of generating sales. I have several customers that love getting catalogs but never order. I could charge them for a catalog but it just feels wrong because they do come to my classes.
If your demo offers classes are they less expensive that the LSS? Most of the demos I charge significantly less than our LSS yet their classes are wonderful.
The things I've listed are not a burden and demos do it because they love it but when you consider the time they spend, the little profit they make certainly isn't going to pay the bills unless they are a high volume demo with oodles of downlines.
So please, don't ask a demo for a discount or expect them to give you more freebies. I shop with a lot of other companies than SU and I don't expect sales or free shipping. It's nice when it happens but I expect to pay for their services.
If your demo drops, as other have said, they were thinking of dropping anyway. But if your demo stays, support them by understanding that they didn't make this change but are willing to work through it and continue to offer you services, share their love of stamping, and their friendship.
Based on my personal ordering history, and assuming there are others like me, SU and other rep and catalog-based craft businesses have got to be hurting. I can find any information needed by searching online (don't need a demo or class). As much fun as it is to look through a new catalog, it is more fun to have monthly releases of brand new product.
After being introduced to stamping, I was averaging $150+ per month on SU products. I poured over the catalog and carefully planned each order (always enough $ to be a party) to best use any reward or bonus. About 6 years ago, that amount dropped by 95% after I found online companies with photopolymer stamps, dies, cardstock, ink and monthly releases.
Just off the top of my head:
1) PTI has monthly releases, $75 daily gift certificate drawings during release, $150 gift certificate drawing on release day, rewards points equaling 4% of order to spend on items of your choice, free shipping at $75, an across-the-board discount for 24 hours on their anniversary date.
2) MFT has monthly releases, $75 daily gift certificate drawings during the release, a free stamp or die set with $60 purchase, free shipping at $75, 10% discount at $100, 15% discount at $250, and 20% discount at $500, plus frequent sales of anywhere from 10-30% off.
3) Verve has frequent sales, free shipping at $55, only $3 for under $55
4) Waltzingmouse, WPlus9, Cas-Ual Fridays, Uniko, Avery Elle, Reverse Confetti, Clearly Besotted, Winnie & Walter, and Lil' Inker all offer free shipping, frequent releases, great service and occasional sales.
I follow and order from all these companies. Is it any wonder that I'm now spending more than double what I ever was with SU? I and others like me have money to spend, but it isn't going to SU any longer, because there are too many other good alternatives out there, SU doesn't offer the products we want, their prices are too high, their shipping is too high, and with a catalog-based business model, it takes too long to adapt to new trends. Things that are new and exciting to SU-only crafters have actually probably been around for a while for customers of monthly-release businesses.
Hopefully no SU demos will be hurt or offended by these comments - it's just the reality in this household.
No offense taken. I have a few customers that have been stamping for seven plus years that still buy almost exclusively from SU. They like getting together in person to learn new techniques, have fun stamping, see samples, etc. That type of thing doesn't appeal to every customer just like the type of plans online companies have don't appeal to everyone. That is the beauty of choice.
Su does have a new photopolymer stamp set release every month for those want a regular dose of new.
I'm glad SU is offering photopolymer. But that is also a problem...one new set a month. If you don't like it, fine don't order. If you do like it, then the minimum shipping is $6.95.
With the companies I listed, plus more that I've thought of since then, there are over 100 new sets per month, probably more than 200. Choice, convenience and cost.
As I stated in my earlier post, I am a long-time SU! customer and still feel that their products are really, really good quality. Maybe the truest thing that has been said so far in this thread is Mary's point that a catalog-based business model is becoming obsolete. It is very unfortunate for the demos if this is the case, and I feel for them the most. Maybe it's similar to the demise of so many brick-and-mortar stores - they just can't keep up with online, whether with how often things are released or the price points being so different.
stamphappy1650 - your point is well taken about the time and expense involved for demos to do what they do, which is why I'm not a demo (among other reasons), and why I feel for those who are backing away now. All of the demos in my personal experience are not making any money to speak of - they do it for love of the product and time spent with friends and to offset their own crafting costs a bit.
Perhaps SU! should investigate other business models that would allow them to better keep up with changing trends and online stores - in price points, releases, shipping costs, etc. I'm no economics guru, for sure, but change is inevitable and maybe it's time to adapt a different way than making it even harder for demos to retain their customer base...?
Like I said to each their own. If someone wants to save on shipping double check with your demo as they may be placing a bigger order that could save you on shipping.
I have to say I am shocked to hear that pti and mft are offering 1,200 to 2,400 brand new stamp sets per year. Good for them, but man I wouldn't want to work in their warehouse ;)
But, I am assuming you mean total from all the companies. In which case you would be paying separate tax and shipping with each separate company, or having to spend enough to get free shipping.
I was just letting people know that Stampin up does offer a monthly release in case they weren't aware. I like having that option, but really the big catty and two minis are already offer are already more than my budget can handle so I don't need 100s of new sets every month. Others don't like buying online. Etc. again, it is about options, and there is definitely still room in the market for a catty based company.
I have to say I am shocked to hear that pti and mft are offering 1,200 to 2,400 brand new stamp sets per year. Good for them, but man I wouldn't want to work in their warehouse ;)
But, I am assuming you mean total from all the companies. In which case you would be paying separate tax and shipping with each separate company, or having to spend enough to get free shipping.
Ha! Yes, I meant total of the photopolymer companies that I can think of, and there are more than I listed above. I order from a couple companies every month. For the others, I wait till there is a sale or a big enough list to get free shipping. Can you tell that I enjoy free shipping? And there is no tax unless the company is located in my state. Most aren't.
And even with all I've said, I admire SU demos for all the effort they put forth in their business. It isn't enough of a % to make it worth all the effort and hassle for me, but others do a good job at it. I don't want to seem ungrateful; I've just moved in a different direction.
Ha! Yes, I meant total of the photopolymer companies that I can think of, and there are more than I listed above. I order from a couple companies every month. For the others, I wait till there is a sale or a big enough list to get free shipping. Can you tell that I enjoy free shipping? And there is no tax unless the company is located in my state. Most aren't.
FYI: many states expect you to pay that sales tax when you file your tax return.
Perhaps SU! should investigate other business models that would allow them to better keep up with changing trends and online stores - in price points, releases, shipping costs, etc. I'm no economics guru, for sure, but change is inevitable and maybe it's time to adapt a different way than making it even harder for demos to retain their customer base...?
Well said. Personally, I think the "demo workshop" is no longer popular in most markets taking into the consideration of how may demos hold clubs and classes. IMHO where SU could really help is to allow demos to do bulk buys where so it's affordable to use their embellishment.
I also think the annual catalog is a hindrance. Personally, I like having a catalog but I'd rather have 4 a year with new products.
When it come to trends, I don't follow trends that closely but I do look for new products that support the latest techniques. Although we all still make cards, I think there is a large group of us that are "paper crafters" not just card makers.
SU says they are a healthy company but I do think they see the writing on the wall with the heavy online competition and companies that have the flexibility to change often. Things have to change with times .... now where did I put my carbon paper.....;)
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Originally Posted by mcbenjam
Based on my personal ordering history, and assuming there are others like me, SU and other rep and catalog-based craft businesses have got to be hurting. I can find any information needed by searching online (don't need a demo or class). As much fun as it is to look through a new catalog, it is more fun to have monthly releases of brand new product.
After being introduced to stamping, I was averaging $150+ per month on SU products. I poured over the catalog and carefully planned each order (always enough $ to be a party) to best use any reward or bonus. About 6 years ago, that amount dropped by 95% after I found online companies with photopolymer stamps, dies, cardstock, ink and monthly releases.
Just off the top of my head:
1) PTI has monthly releases, $75 daily gift certificate drawings during release, $150 gift certificate drawing on release day, rewards points equaling 4% of order to spend on items of your choice, free shipping at $75, an across-the-board discount for 24 hours on their anniversary date.
2) MFT has monthly releases, $75 daily gift certificate drawings during the release, a free stamp or die set with $60 purchase, free shipping at $75, 10% discount at $100, 15% discount at $250, and 20% discount at $500, plus frequent sales of anywhere from 10-30% off.
3) Verve has frequent sales, free shipping at $55, only $3 for under $55
4) Waltzingmouse, WPlus9, Cas-Ual Fridays, Uniko, Avery Elle, Reverse Confetti, Clearly Besotted, Winnie & Walter, and Lil' Inker all offer free shipping, frequent releases, great service and occasional sales.
I follow and order from all these companies. Is it any wonder that I'm now spending more than double what I ever was with SU? I and others like me have money to spend, but it isn't going to SU any longer, because there are too many other good alternatives out there, SU doesn't offer the products we want, their prices are too high, their shipping is too high, and with a catalog-based business model, it takes too long to adapt to new trends. Things that are new and exciting to SU-only crafters have actually probably been around for a while for customers of monthly-release businesses.
Hopefully no SU demos will be hurt or offended by these comments - it's just the reality in this household.
Mary
Different strokes for different folks. SU works for me because they DO NOT have monthly releases (or at least big ones). I cannot keep up with that as demo or just a regular customer! I stay away from PTI and other companies because one, I just can't keep up like I said and if I'm being honest I would way over spend. I tend to really "get into things" and I'd just HAVE to have all the new stuff and that's not going to fly! :-)
So, I know there are people who like that but I don't and I think there are quite a few like me. But this is why I'm glad we all have so much choice with different companies. There doesn't have to be one one-size-fits-all. We order from what works for us. SU doesn't have to appeal to everyone just like no other store does either. Just wanted to reiterate that non-monthly releases aren't really a negative (although they sure can be to some folks for sure). I also really like the coordination factor with SU. it makes it easy for me. I don't like to have to "work" to figure out what goes together.
And really, the company is making the changes to put more money in the demos pockets which is a positive change. I hope no demos leave from just a knee jerk reaction without taking time to understand the plan and maybe giving it a chance. And to those who may lose your demo I'm truly sorry as this IS way more than crafting but about friends!!!!
That is not what SU said at all. What they said was that based on the actual numbers sales did not increase, workshops did not increase, etc. when they increased the hostess benefits from 15 to 25. So based on research it didn't make a difference in customers buying habits.
Well, I did some maths (ok, excel did it for me, but I had to think, too). :grin: SU did increased the hostess benefits in 2011, but only for orders over $400! Honestly, how many customers do spend over $400 for a single order? :confused:
:arrow: By the middle of 2011, the hostess (or an individual customer) got $15 incentive dollars for a party/order of $150 and 1 smaller hostess set additionally, which I calculated to correspond with an actual hostess set of $10 (like a cheaper hostess set now, I compared them to the purchasing price in the actual catalog). So this was a total of $25 hostess rewards (or a incentive bonus of 16,7%).
A $200 party gave $20 hostess dollars and 1 smaller hostess set, that is $30 or 15% bonus. A $250 party was actually a step back, $25 and 1 smaller hostess set, that is $35 or 14% bonus. A $300 party was $35 and 1 middle sized hostess set (level 2, for let's say $15), that is $50 total or 16,7% bonus.
:arrow: Since 2011, the hostess/customer gets $25 incentive dollars for a party/order of $150, so this is still a bonus of 16,7%. ;) A $200 party gives $30 hostess dollars, so still a 15% bonus. A $250 party gives now $40 or 16% bonus, so they fixed the mistake. :grin: A $300 party is $50 or still a bonus of 16,7% bonus. ;)
:arrow: Only from a total of $400 the changes do have an impact. From then on, you can choose a product at half price. This is something tricky to calculate, because you can choose a cheaper product (and get less rewards, but have less to pay extra), or a more expensive product (more savings, but more extra payment, too). If you choose as half prized items products for let's say $40, you receive a bonus from 20,2% up to 23,0%. I calculated with a middle ranged product price, since I have a big shot already (and nobody would buy 4 big shots :grin: ). Until 2011, it was a bonus from 17,5% up to 20% for the parties with $400 and more.
So yes, the hostess rewards did increase, but only for very large orders (from an amount of $400 on)! :neutral: This could be the explanation, why the sales and workshops did not increase, since the hostess rewards for the typical customer did not increase, only the system changed! :!:
Reducing the hostess bonus to 10% would be a price increase for me, since I calculate my order already with the bonus (because their prices are so high). : For an order of $150, I would have to pay $160 to get the same value of product as before ($175), so this would be already a price increase of 6,67%! :shock: I like SU products very much, but they are already overpriced! :!:
So no, I really don't think sales will increase with this step. :???: Real wages have fallen for years and will probably not grow overnight.
Based on my personal ordering history, and assuming there are others like me, SU and other rep and catalog-based craft businesses have got to be hurting. I can find any information needed by searching online (don't need a demo or class). As much fun as it is to look through a new catalog, it is more fun to have monthly releases of brand new product.
After being introduced to stamping, I was averaging $150+ per month on SU products. I poured over the catalog and carefully planned each order (always enough $ to be a party) to best use any reward or bonus. About 6 years ago, that amount dropped by 95% after I found online companies with photopolymer stamps, dies, cardstock, ink and monthly releases.
Just off the top of my head:
1) PTI has monthly releases, $75 daily gift certificate drawings during release, $150 gift certificate drawing on release day, rewards points equaling 4% of order to spend on items of your choice, free shipping at $75, an across-the-board discount for 24 hours on their anniversary date.
2) MFT has monthly releases, $75 daily gift certificate drawings during the release, a free stamp or die set with $60 purchase, free shipping at $75, 10% discount at $100, 15% discount at $250, and 20% discount at $500, plus frequent sales of anywhere from 10-30% off.
3) Verve has frequent sales, free shipping at $55, only $3 for under $55
4) Waltzingmouse, WPlus9, Cas-Ual Fridays, Uniko, Avery Elle, Reverse Confetti, Clearly Besotted, Winnie & Walter, and Lil' Inker all offer free shipping, frequent releases, great service and occasional sales.
I follow and order from all these companies. Is it any wonder that I'm now spending more than double what I ever was with SU? I and others like me have money to spend, but it isn't going to SU any longer, because there are too many other good alternatives out there, SU doesn't offer the products we want, their prices are too high, their shipping is too high, and with a catalog-based business model, it takes too long to adapt to new trends. Things that are new and exciting to SU-only crafters have actually probably been around for a while for customers of monthly-release businesses.
Hopefully no SU demos will be hurt or offended by these comments - it's just the reality in this household.
Mary
Wow Mary! You have done your homework!
Thanks for compiling all these great deals in one lovely paragraph!
Karen S
I have to somewhat agree with some of the dialogue here. I would agree it seems like we are getting away from the classes/workshops/parties etc bc of all the online activity. Its hard to balance life as we are all so busy --but I want to see us all get back to doing life together. For me I am a coach bc I thrive for and relish the relationships. Its not as fun to stamp/craft alone all the time.
edit: SU did increase [my edit button disappeared] :cool:
Another thought: As always, there is no comparison to how the numbers would have changed if the company had not modified the bonus system. Who says that the sales would haven been the same? ;) The sales could have also declined. :cool: Finally Craft purchases are always additional purchases that you make when you still have money left over. Given the high prices of SU and good competition from other stamping companies the bonus system could have may help to stabilize sales, eg. "Ok, that stamps are overpriced, but I get some additional products if I buy more." - At least that's what I think, to justify my purchases from myself. :p
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Originally Posted by wHeNpiGsFly
I have to somewhat agree with some of the dialogue here. I would agree it seems like we are getting away from the classes/workshops/parties etc bc of all the online activity. Its hard to balance life as we are all so busy --but I want to see us all get back to doing life together. For me I am a coach bc I thrive for and relish the relationships. Its not as fun to stamp/craft alone all the time.
I so agree! When I get together with friends at SU classes I always say how much fun it is to get together, then I say stamping at home seems so lonely!
__________________ All I want is the chance to prove money won't make me happy!
Last edited by Allistamps123; 02-06-2015 at 03:54 AM..
I'm not a demo and my demo hasn't mentioned anything about changes so my opinion is from what I've heard elsewhere.
We meet once a month and make cards and place orders. Our group has dwindled to three of us trying to keep our demo afloat enough to meet quarterly minimums. My minimum order each month is at least $50 and so is demo's but third gal orders only about $25. So we haven't been getting hostess stuff anyway. But when we do, we split the hostess money. Going to be very tough splitting $15 if that's a true speculation. Maybe they are trying to weed out the hobby demos? My demo would like more interest, but as much as people love her cards and projects, no one seems to have time or money to get more into it. It's not my demos fault. She tries. People ask for catalogs from her, then have the nerve to order from another demo! Not much she can do but quit handing out the catalogs unless they pay for them upfront.
Having said all that, we love the product. I hope nothing changes so much so that she has to give it up. I would miss our monthly classes and being able to order supplies monthly too.
My Demo hasn't said anything either and like muscrat we too gather monthly for card making and ordering. Our group is also small with only 5 of us but we have a blast and I would truely miss this but to be honest I think the 5 of us would still get together regardless of what SU decides to do. Just realized that I wrote this before I finished reading all posts on this thread...OOPS:oops: Better go back and start reading!! My point is...regardless of what the changes those of us who really love the products will just carry on no matter what happens.
For those of you in clubs with your demos, do you really think she won't inform you upfront of the changes when it's time to commit to another year of club? Do you think she'll try to "slip one past you?" I highly doubt that.
None of this takes effect for months, so demos and customers both have time to absorb the info, determine how it affects them, and make decisions on how to move forward. Give your demo some time, and if nothing has been said in a couple months' time, and you still have questions about the changes, ask her.
If you have a relationship with a demo, wouldn't you rather talk to her about the changes than read partial info from a chatboard? Put yourself in your demo's position -- wouldn't you want the opportunity to talk to your customers rather than them getting potentially skewed info from SCS?
