Ellison/Sizzix Patent Litigation Update

[Alice in Md]

Scrapbook Update had an informative update on the Ellison/Sizzix die situation on May 1, 2019.
Here's the link if you're interested: News Archives - Scrapbook Update

[JoBear2]

Thanks for the update. Such a darn shame this is happening:( Just creates alot ill-feeling :mad:

[Savagetwin]

Long post.
My goodness. You really hate to hear of these infringement lawsuits involving companies we all love, especially Sizzix. But this is why we have patent laws and those against infringement of one's creations.
We know that Sizzix was "our first". And, if I am correct, THE first. However, we also know that this was bound to happen. Look at MISTI 's situation. I always wondered why there were so many copies of her original design out there allowed to exist. Didn't it cross your mind? And I support My Sweet Petunia 100%. There are those against her and have even written nasty things about her including "She has no right". I beg your pardon. SHE certainly does. Last time I looked, the was still America.
My daughter used to hate when kids copied off of her in school. I used to discuss her feelings and told her imitation was the highest form of flattery. She didn't buy it. So I told her to discuss with teacher. My bail out. BUT I asked the teacher to discuss as a lesson in economics 😂. And then there are the halls of higher academia. You plagiarize, you gone. My sister once failed a student in Langston University for giving in a final paper whose words were taken verbatim from a known author. Sis was also a professional librarian. He challenged her with the dean of the history department. So, my sister was called in his office. They both had a hearty laugh cuz the student couldn't even pronounce the word "plagiarize". The dean told him what it meant. And also told him what the school's policy was against this academic crime.

So, we just sit back and let the courts handle it. After all, the law of the land rules.
I am more alarmed that Sizziz seems to be in financial trouble. I wonder why the product designers or producers mentioned in the article left. That's not good. But heck. I got an apartment full of Sizzix including the old red machine and the old red side kick. Got their dies also. I will always love them and the joy that this American born company has brought me, including my fav Tim Holtz.

The end.

[lutheran]

The info in the link was very interesting. The market is flooded with dies and I can understand Ellison's market share taking a dive. In the end, when the courts say who is right and who is wrong concerning a product, it is both the consumer and the small companies, usually, who lose out.
Mary Beth

[stampin stacy]

thanks for the link...

Quote:

We know that Sizzix was "our first". And, if I am correct, THE first.

Sizzix original dies were not open though, sizzlets and bigz are a different animal so to speak because they have an actual cutting blade. This is not about who had the first crafting dies but about open dies. Cutttlebug and Quikcut dies when they came out were also closed dies. The first open die I saw was Spellbinder's. Go Avery Elle!!

[HeatherHolbrook]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Savagetwin

Look at MISTI 's situation. I always wondered why there were so many copies of her original design out there allowed to exist. Didn't it cross your mind? And I support My Sweet Petunia 100%. There are those against her and have even written nasty things about her including "She has no right". I beg your pardon. SHE certainly does. Last time I looked, the was still America.

The end.

My understanding about the MISTI is that she did not file for a patent initially, so it was completely legal for other companies to produce similar items. It was only after these others came out did she then file for a patent and went after those companies who then had to pull theirs from the market.

[iamvics]

This thread has opining about the subject, also: The Fate of Coordinating Dies? - Splitcoaststampers

[fionna51]

Quote:

Originally Posted by HeatherHolbrook

My understanding about the MISTI is that she did not file for a patent initially, so it was completely legal for other companies to produce similar items. It was only after these others came out did she then file for a patent and went after those companies who then had to pull theirs from the market.

I don't think this is completely accurate. I have one of her very first MISTIs and it is imprinted "Patent Pending". That means the patent application was filed but hadn't been evaluated and granted yet. It was 26 months between the filing and the granting of her patent.


Copycats are common during that time...they can sell as many as they can possibly market--until the patent is granted.

[HeatherHolbrook]

Maybe I'm not remembering correctly but I'm pretty sure I read an interview with the MISTI owner after the lawsuits were brought up and she stated an attorney (who was not a patent attorney) told her she didn't need one, so she didn't file until the copycats came out. She was trying to explain why she was suing these other companies and admitting part of it was her not doing enough research herself and relying on the word of an attorney that didn't specialize in patents.

[stampin stacy]

We seem to have wandered off topic. Is there any further discussion about the Ellison lawsuits, that is the one I am currently interested in. Should I abandon and quit reading this thread?

[bjeans]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Savagetwin

Long post.
My goodness. You really hate to hear of these infringement lawsuits involving companies we all love, especially Sizzix. But this is why we have patent laws and those against infringement of one's creations.
We know that Sizzix was "our first". And, if I am correct, THE first. However, we also know that this was bound to happen. Look at MISTI 's situation. I always wondered why there were so many copies of her original design out there allowed to exist. Didn't it cross your mind? And I support My Sweet Petunia 100%. There are those against her and have even written nasty things about her including "She has no right". I beg your pardon. SHE certainly does. Last time I looked, the was still America.
My daughter used to hate when kids copied off of her in school. I used to discuss her feelings and told her imitation was the highest form of flattery. She didn't buy it. So I told her to discuss with teacher. My bail out. BUT I asked the teacher to discuss as a lesson in economics � ����. And then there are the halls of higher academia. You plagiarize, you gone. My sister once failed a student in Langston University for giving in a final paper whose words were taken verbatim from a known author. Sis was also a professional librarian. He challenged her with the dean of the history department. So, my sister was called in his office. They both had a hearty laugh cuz the student couldn't even pronounce the word "plagiarize". The dean told him what it meant. And also told him what the school's policy was against this academic crime.

So, we just sit back and let the courts handle it. After all, the law of the land rules.
I am more alarmed that Sizziz seems to be in financial trouble. I wonder why the product designers or producers mentioned in the article left. That's not good. But heck. I got an apartment full of Sizzix including the old red machine and the old red side kick. Got their dies also. I will always love them and the joy that this American born company has brought me, including my fav Tim Holtz.

The end.

Who has rights and who doesn’t is for the legal eagles, not me (not that they always get it right in any field, not just crafting). But there was a letter press - some say two - with a clear hinged lid that could also be used for stamping back in 2011. scrapbookupdate.com had an on-line article with photos/instructions. (PM me if you want the link.) Maybe it wasn’t trademarked for that purpose? That’s partly why another company is fighting back. Again, not debating, just that sometimes it’s not black and white, more like shades of gray, though maybe not 50.

[bjeans]

Quote:

Originally Posted by stampin stacy

We seem to have wandered off topic. Is there any further discussion about the Ellison lawsuits, that is the one I am currently interested in. Should I abandon and quit reading this thread?

Since we can’t know what anyone will post in the future, who knows? Meandering happens in many threads, and when I’ve apologized for doing it myself, have been told it’s fine, it’s normal, like in real life. So I’ve passed that sentiment on to others.

Sometimes in a long thread I do a page search for a word or two to see if there’s more info on the original topic. But with the subject being another craft lawsuit, the convo seems fairly normal. YMMV though.

[HeatherHolbrook]

Quote:

Originally Posted by bjeans

Who has rights and who doesn’t is for the legal eagles, not me (not that they always get it right in any field, not just crafting). But there was a letter press - some say two - with a clear hinged lid that could also be used for stamping back in 2011. scrapbookupdate.com had an on-line article with photos/instructions. (PM me if you want the link.) Maybe it wasn’t trademarked for that purpose? That’s partly why another company is fighting back. Again, not debating, just that sometimes it’s not black and white, more like shades of gray, though maybe not 50.

Yup, I actually did a review in March of 2011 for the Lifestyle Crafts Letterpress:
Review: L Letterpress from Lifestyle Crafts – Stamping
It had a hinge and was certainly used for repeated stamping as well as debossing/letterpressing, etc. but like you said I'm not sure what the specific patent covered.

Sorry, I don't think this is too off topic, we're still talking about crafty litigation.

[bjeans]

Am I the only one having trouble with the Ellison lawsuit diagrams? (Probably.) I looked at them the when the update came out but gave up.

[southgirl]

In the end, no matter who wins, it will be the consumer (we crafters) that will suffer.

[Savagetwin]

Quote:

Originally Posted by stampin stacy

We seem to have wandered off topic. Is there any further discussion about the Ellison lawsuits, that is the one I am currently interested in. Should I abandon and quit reading this thread?

I think the discussion is interesting. It concerns the companies we love. So, if you are not interested in the continued discussion, it is your choice. Not ours

[Savagetwin]

Quote:

Originally Posted by fionna51

I don't think this is completely accurate. I have one of her very first MISTIs and it is imprinted "Patent Pending". That means the patent application was filed but hadn't been evaluated and granted yet. It was 26 months between the filing and the granting of her patent.


Copycats are common during that time...they can sell as many as they can possibly market--until the patent is granted.

Yes, you are correct. Apparently the delay was in the process which you said. MISTI inventor made necessary corrections and the patent was eventually granted. A patent is different from a copyright which is different from a trademark which people seem to be confused about, right?
However, these issues go on all the time. And, the copiers will eventually lose of they have not abided by the law.
I also do not believe we the consumer loses. There are also laws against monopoly. Even the mighty Microsoft tried that and they failed, had to testify in Congress and that really shook them to the core. I lived during those hearings and Gates was shaken. What companies do is produce a better product using their own creativity. So the consumer wins.

[Savagetwin]

Quote:

Originally Posted by southgirl

In the end, no matter who wins, it will be the consumer (we crafters) that will suffer.

I don't think the consumer suffers at all. The companies who are at fault have to come up with another and better product. Invention will never stop.

[stampinchicago]

Any news?

[lesleybd]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Savagetwin

L
...We know that Sizzix was "our first".
The end.

What were they the first to do? I thought the first people to make thin dies were Spellbinders. Surely the Sizzix dies are ar development of those?

[RMorrRuth]

Does anyone know how it has all ended? As I do remember, the court trial scheduled for September 2020. However I have not seen any news regarding this case.

[lovinpaper]

Quote:

Originally Posted by RMorrRuth

Does anyone know how it has all ended? As I do remember, the court trial scheduled for September 2020. However I have not seen any news regarding this case.

The case is over.  I think the companies involved can not say anything in detail.  Stephanie Bernard with The Stamps of Life was one of those involved and when it was over she breathed again.  She can't share details.  I am sure the other companies are the same as they made their agreements and are legally binding to not share.