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Chupa (the fabulous Iwona Palamountain) posted a really insightful story on her blog. If you've ever thought how wonderful it would be to be on a design team for a paper crafting company, you'll probably want to read this first!
I always wondered about Design Teams and promoting product. I know how much time it takes me to make card, so to create new innovative cards must take so much time. I do think the expectation of 'the glory & fame' as your reward as a DT member is a bit much. I know the DT members do it for the love of the craft, but I agree with the blog poster that there should be some kind of financial reward for work done as it brings customers to the company.
I wonder just how many companies truly value the people they ask to be on their teams. I'm sure it's hard to put out cash when you're starting up a new business, but that's advertising. One should expect to pay for advertising.
So long as people keep applying for design teams knowing they will only recieve some product in exchange for being able to say "I'm on the design team for XYZ company, the industry will not change.
So long as people keep applying for design teams knowing they will only recieve some product in exchange for being able to say "I'm on the design team for XYZ company, the industry will not change.
Sadly, this is true. And as long as we, the customers, continue to buy from companies that have two dozen non-paid design team members on the rolls, it will continue as well.
I would totally support a company that said "You know what? We have three of the best designers to showcase our work, and we pay them well. Please visit their blogs often. Would you like more inspiration? Then please participate in our weekly/monthly company fan blog hop where you can see what others have made for free."
I have always been curious about this. Not because I would want to be or even could be on a design team (even if I was talented enough, I work so slowly that no one would keep me on for long), but because I sort of guessed that the only thing people got was product, and I always wondered how anyone could keep up the pace, given that there was no other compensation.
It does seem very unfair, asking people to do this for free. But until people stop doing it for free, why would any company pay someone to do it? And I think that perhaps part of the reason people will continue to volunteer is because it is one of the few ways of receiving recognition for your work. Unless you are a demo and giving classes, you are one of the many, many crafters who labor over their projects and then send them to people who might or might not even care that they are handmade works of art. I know myself that the challenges on this site are often all that keep me crafting. That the support and positive comments by my fellow SCSer's are really a wonderful thing. Altruism is all well and good, but you need someone who understands what you do to applaud your efforts once in a while!
Thank you for linking us to to Iwona's blog post, maryrose.
And thank you for your candid post, Iwona. It really was food for thought.
I wish you all the best in your Etsy endeavors!
__________________ I have come to the conclusion that buying craft supplies and actually using them are two separate hobbies. RachelRose Designs by Robin... GALLERY
There was a similar discussion a while back - found this blog post interesting by NancyK. at Splitcoaststampers. I found that one interesting too. I didn't actually realise it was that far back, because I felt sure someone had posted a link to Iwona's post before and that there was a thread resulting from that, but I must be misremembering!
Thank you! I forgot about that thread. Working for glitter! LOL! I still laugh when I think about that one. I see this pop up on places like Pinterest occasionally. It seems to be the dirty little secret of the crafting world.
Something similar happened to me recently. I moved to a new town last year. After talking with the preschool director of our new church, I mentioned that I used to be a preschool teacher. Before I knew it, I was getting calls every week to be a substitute, which was fine once in a while, but soon I was being asked nearly five days a week. The preschool was paying me a whopping $8/hr, which hardly made the forty minute round trip worth the gas money. At my last preschool position (about ten years ago) I was making $13/hr. As a college grad with many years of work experience, it just seemed that my time wasn't valued. I had to politely decline and bow out. Ministry and charity is one thing, but why is it that women are always expected to sacrifice in the wages department?
I'm pretty picky about where I will spend my time these days. More often than not, I'd rather be home with my family and puppy than work in a world that doesn't value my contribution.
I'm pretty picky about where I will spend my time these days. More often than not, I'd rather be home with my family and puppy than work in a world that doesn't value my contribution.
Exactly. Think about all the men you know or have known in your life. Have any of them ever worked for free, besides an internship or limited time arrangement? I'm betting not.
The arts in general attract a lot of women, and a lot of sensitive souls, and this sort of abuse is endemic because of the (natural) desire to be seen and heard and recognized.
I'm a writer, and have written for newspapers, magazines, review journals, etc. When you figure in the background research, the interviews, reading multiple books for research plus the writing of the actual piece and editing, my salary often worked out to be about a nickel an hour :rolleyes:
But the argument from up top always was: well, if you don't want the job there's a huge line behind you who do. And the implication was that they don't mind working for a nickel an hour (which cheapens everybody's contribution, of course) so you should consider yourself lucky that you even get the chance, the mere opportunity, to work for a nickel an hour.
But the days of the gatekeepers are nearly gone, and anyone can publish and promote their own work now. And in my opinion, that's the way to go. Sure it's more work, but you earn the fruits of your own labors.
Last edited by poppydarling; 04-18-2016 at 09:39 AM..
I thought about this all day. I know something about business in general, retail in particular, but not specifically about this industry. I freely admit I know squat here about a lot of this so please correct me where I am wrong.
I see things on both sides. I have questions. I would like to hear other people's thoughts please.
On "that" side...I think if I was on a DT (never have been, never will be-like Rachel I am too slow) it might teach me to a) produce on a schedule. b) produce to other people's tastes. c) drive traffic to my blog as much as my blog is driving to theirs. d) Maybe I would be forced to learn new skills to deal with some of the product they throw at me. e) make me learn to take good pics of the work. f) make me learn about social media. g) bring me in contact with others in the business aka networking. All of which could be good for me if I wanted to eventually make things to sell and/or want to raise my blog profile. Also gives me a resume for the few paid jobs out there. Is this "paying your dues" in this industry? People network in other ones and dont get paid for it. Can these be considered non-tangible benefits?
As to being "tools"...If I am a mechanic in a garage...the tools are there for me to use. I dont take them home, I dont own them, and I cant use them to turn around and do work I may sell and profit from. No, it certainly isnt equitable from an hourly pov. Even if I do make to sell, there is labor again so you are always "behind".
When we hire people, we want them to have experience right? So...if we go to the paid premise...this deeply shrinks the potential hiring pool to only DT members who are either willing to jump companies or happen to be free at the moment. Just saying.
Lastly this may be all a person wants. Years ago people submitted cards to mags and were thrilled to get picked. This is the internet version in a way, but more so because it is ongoing. (vs say the winner of a challenge) Some people may be happy to do it for free because it works for them for whatever reason. They dont want a permanent committment. Doing this for 6 months is fine with them. Then they can move on to another company and another style of stamp or not. Maybe they cant do this all year round due to life demands. Maybe they just wanted to see if they could do it at all.
On "this" side...DH is a CPA and I described it to him. He said he feels it is skirting the law. One of the legal tests of who is an "employee" is if you can hire/fire them, and certainly that is what happens with a DT. He went on to say he feels it is exploiting the talent of these people and they should be ashamed of themselves. He says they should be hired as independent contractors since they often have limited time frames. So there's an objective viewpoint from someone who only sometimes sees cards I am looking at in the gallery in passing, and almost always says "That's a work of art" before moving on.
Having spoken to a well know DT person once about this...she pointed out that as Chupa said, they buy a lot of stuff. (On the subject of people getting snitty when they sell off product)
Then I thought, what if you could have a company that insists you use only their product on a card. Which means your stash, which you may have gotten on sale, is useless. You have to buy their paper, their ink, their dies, EFs, etc. unless they are willing to provide that.
So not only are you out your time and talent, you are out potentially real dollars.
Somehow, in my ignorance, when I hear "designer" I dont equate that with "DT". (not that I am saying one is higher in stature, just different) I think of designers as the people who design the stamps. DTs I really think of as like an arm of advertising/marketing. I may be wrong there. Maybe designers should be making samples with their product-or are already.
Lastly...look at demos. Every demo that strikes me as "successful" is working their A** off from what I can see. Holding classes, get aways, giveaways, making videos, blogging, company events, networking, etc etc etc. Are they getting fairly paid? I dont know. Being able to pay the mortgage may be enough for some, but dollar/hour?
There are jobs in the universe you do because you love them. Not because they are going to make you rich.
In the end, I am not loving this DT arrangement, but no one is making people do it either. So I dont know that I can complain a whole lot about it?
What do you all think? Did I raise any valid points?
How I see it, it's true what your husband said - DT work has all characteristics of a freelance design job and should be treated as one.
DT work arrangements are complex and specific, there are often contracts in place and paperwork to fill in. It does tend to be more relaxed in terms of meeting / missing requirements as a rule of thumb, which doesn't mean that both sides are not doing their absolute best to fulfill them. From my experience Design Team members are immensely hardworking people. They also on average never complain about the workload.
The exposure / newly learned skills one gets are a benefit of course, but it's nothing unique across other industries or jobs out there. When someone scores a job with a prominent company, they reap all benefits of it, including making a name for themselves as an employee of x. If they were hired, it means they were worth it.
In regards to internship parallel, it would be valid IF there was an opportunity of a paid job lurking around. Gaining skills and knowledge in order to get a stable position somewhere is a common practice, and I applaud that.
For paper crafters, there's no 'higher level' existing to strive for, really.
Very, very few fortunate ones set up a business teaching online classes or something of the sort. With the popularity of Kristina's Online Classes and Craftsy's courses there's a very competitive market out there.
And with the plethora of FREE inspiration on blogs (majorly provided by DT gals who offer free tutorials on their blogs as well as their company's), I can see that people are spoiled for choices without spending extra cash to learn. I didn't pay a dollar for any of the skills I learnt over the years. I learnt by visiting other people's blogs and learning from them.
Some pull off an argument that you can branch out to say, do graphic design for a company, but oh, how does designing art pieces with paper and ink equates to graphic design?? It's not the same set of skills I'm afraid.
Also, I know that graphic designers doing stamps designs for stamp companies (IDK about the scrapbooking side) are heavily underpaid. I did gigs for a few companies in the past, and I also spoke to a friend who does that at the moment.
She's able to perhaps buy a few loaves of bread with a pay she gets for a stamp set. The company? They have the right to sell her design over and over. Is it fair? I don't think so.
I'm all over this amazing, supportive community. I'm all over sharing and learning from each other, and the mutual support. That's why people decide on having blogs, that's the essence of challenges and forums like this one.
I DO draw the line with DT work.
Because behind every company out there there's a person like us, who started doing what they love (e.g.: established a business selling things they're passionate about), in a hope that they're able to sustain themselves from this passion of theirs.
We, designers, we're no different. We do what we do best, in a hope that it works well for everyone. We enjoy what we do and there's no shame in it. But I don't think it's a valid reason for working hard to help sustain a business that is not ours, and do it for free or for a pitiful wage.
Especially that DT's are essentially a lifeblood of most businesses in the paper crafting industry. Their sales are almost entirely a direct result of the DT's efforts.
p.s. to give you an idea of the 'wages' DT's are commonly on (if at all), it might be around $25 per blog post. Now I don't know how long other people spend on a blog post but for me, between designing, photographing, writing a post, promoting a post, it's a full day's job.
(I don't count in working on a tutorial 'cause it's a true time eater!)
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Interesting post on the blog. I had to go hunt up the blog since none of the links here worked for me.
I don't think there are too many people on design teams who do this just for the sheer joy - the schedule can be a grind and most folks grow to be a little resentful of spending their own grocery money to buy supplies while the stamp/die company makes the $$. And selling the free product isn't going to bring much money in due to the cost of shipping.
I can honestly tell you that people on DT's rarely have the time to enjoy the community any more. It's silly 'cause the hype built around the whole idea is so big, that we flock around any opportunities out there in order to validate ourselves, and we take it all in until there's no time to actually play and enjoy. There's fault on both sides.
It's a common occurrence that the monthly releases, once they're 'processed' they're shoved aside never to be touched again, because there's a new release coming up that we need to prepare for. I've witnessed gals lamenting over it over and over again.
How many times you see those active on DT's to be out there enjoying the fruits of their work?
I recently joined an anniversary event for a company in a little one-off comeback, and none of the designers designing for the blog hop made their rounds commenting. It is partly due to the fact that they don't want to add to the comment count for price drawing, but I also know that they simply had no time to do it.
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It's a common occurrence that the monthly releases, once they're 'processed' they're shoved aside never to be touched again, because there's a new release coming up that we need to prepare for. I've witnessed gals lamenting over it over and over again.
That little detail has seriously bothered me for a long time! You see these big glamorous crafting rooms with tons of organization where stamp sets are used once and filed away rarely to see the light of day again. What is the point of that?! But now that I know that they're possibly spending their own money on that stuff, or being bombarded with product that has a built-in expiration date of a few months tops� well that explains a lot.
There's a practice among small businesses with strong social media appearance, that bears resemblance to Design Teams, and it's employing brand reps / brand enthusiasts.
It has the same purpose - to find people with a certain set of skills who can help 'lift' the brand and promote sales (usually via Instagram).
It's most common in he child apparel and home decor industry.
The idea is that a person, after being selected and agreeing on meeting certain requirements in an ongoing timely basis, is being sent free product to promote on their social media.
An example; a mum who runs an Instagram account with good exposure, features her little kid in it. She takes gorgeous photos of him/her and has a cohesive, engaging account.
She's being sent a free garment every now and then, to put on her kid. She photographs it, and shares on her IG while slapping a few relevant hashtags given to her in advance to help bring in wider audience. And that's something she would do once a month or more often depending on an agreement and the nature of product.
No one sends her a yard of fabric and asks her to sew the skirt, or yarn to knit a scarf herself. All she needs to do is snap a lovely photo and promote it once or twice. That's fair.
If she needed to sew the skirt given a pattern only, provide her own materials, she would be recognized as a skilled worker, would need to be hired, and that would be a different story altogether.
No one would do it so that they could get a 'free' skirt.
There's a limit to how much you can ask of a person to do for you as a business owner, for free or for product only - and it's certainly not a task resembling a part / full time job that DT work often is.
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I love that we are having this talk. Every so often here we get into a serious talk about something, and I am always better for it.
Chupa I re-wrote that crazy long post many times and unfortunately the last version missed the part where I said thank you for raising the issue and educating us. And to Maryrose for posting it. Now I will add thank you for your thoughtful answer to my post. I want to think about your several reponses a bit, but this piece rang a bell immediately:
.."and I also spoke to a friend who does that at the moment.
She's able to perhaps buy a few loaves of bread with a pay she gets for a stamp set. The company? They have the right to sell her design over and over. Is it fair? I don't think so..."
This has been "the way" forever...designers and inventors get a paycheck and a company makes money, and you are only as good as your last one...my mom went through this. Happens everywhere.
It does sound like the better deal would be a % of sales. You rise or fall with your design work. Do you think that is a good idea vs a steady paycheck that may leave you feeling cheated, but you know you can pay the rent?
Every company has different incentives - some are using affiliate links to reward their designers, which is a great win-win, as you mentioned. Some manufacturers do pay cash per month or per blog post or per board sample, some pay a percentage of sales via the designer's blog, in addition to free product. Smaller companies are more limited in what they are able to offer, but they make an effort to compensate in other ways (discounts, wholesale buys, etc). In general, contract info between manufacturers and designers is confidential, so chances are that you're not going to get specifics of what's offered across the board... but not everyone is working for free, or for product, or "exposure".
It's good to have a sense of what your work and time is worth, and to set boundaries for what you're willing to give and what you expect in return. Don't be afraid to ask experienced designers if what you're considering is a fair deal - I'm a firm believer that those who have experience in any realm need to be looking for opportunities to share what they've learned with others coming up. I've certainly benefited in my design journey from those who have mentored and encouraged me, and I have done the same for other designers, company owners, artists, etc. I've had good and very bad experiences in my DT career!
Thanks wavejumper, I too am very happy that the discussion is going, because I would love to see a slight shift in the industry. The way I see it, the more we all talk about it, the more the issue is recognized and brought up where it should reach the right people.
I'm not really a graphic designer myself, mine were odd jobs, so I can't truly speak from my scant experience.
I would love to see designers being paid one-off to buy the rights to the product, and then a small ongoing commission based on percent of sales. Like in the contracts writers get with their publishers. Alas, I know it's rather unreal.
I observe a great dichotomy between freelancers on an employment with someone, and freelancers offering their services for a fee.
As you said, people often get screwed in the first case. But freelancers who made a business name of themselves are pricing their work fairly and attracting the clients who are willing to pay accordingly.
Hanging out with small business owners, I learnt one important thing: as an artist / maker / businesswoman, your personal worth (as seen by the others) goes only as far as how you're pricing yourself.
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I wanted to add here that I have a very good friend who was an actual designer for a well known stamp company, meaning that she was a commercial artist who created the designs for the stamps that this company was so well known for. As a freelance artist, she is very protective of her work, and made sure that she had first rights to her work, meaning that it still belonged to her. The company could not use it without her express permission. This is often true of freelance professionals, such as writers, which was what I did in the past as well.
Sadly, I'm guessing from my own experience that this is not true of design team members, who pretty much give up their rights to the company with the understanding that the company "owns" that creation and can promote it in any way they see fit. I'm sure this varies by contract, but I've found it to be true in most cases.
Perhaps there is one area where a design team member can profit, and that would be if their blog is set up with advertisements. If the exposure is driving traffic, and the extra traffic equates to ad clicks, then it may be of some benefit to them monetarily. Just a thought.
I had an affiliate program set up with SSS and it did work better than the DT compensation. It wasn't raining coconuts for sure but I could justify an odd crafty purchase with the earnings I thought of it as my pocket money.
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I have always wondered why people join a DT just for a few free stamps. We are a one income family and money is always tight so I thought about doing occasionally but I always came back to the same questions:
1) wouldn't the supplies needed; paper, ink, glue, embellishments, etc cost more than those "free" stamps?
2) how much do I value myself and my family; aka my time, creative efforts, time taken away from friends and family?
3) would spending so much time on a DT take the joy out of stamping for me and make it just a job instead?
I did work at local stamp conventions as a demo for a small stamp company for a number of years BUT I got paid to do so. I also got a large discount on their stamps and supplies. Granted I wasn't paid a lot but for me it was worth it. I knew I would be attending anyway so the gas expenses argument wasn't valid in my case. It was a lot of fun and I'm glad I have the memories of that experience. Having said that when that company decided to stop traveling the convention circuit I considered finding other "'gigs' but I realized I no longer had time to actually walk around and shop the convention myself. Sometimes I was asked to demo products that I didn't like using myself, in those cases it was work instead of fun. I knew I was done and it was time to move on.
FYI, someone compared DT's to internships and I wanted to point out that not all internships are unpaid, cheap labor maybe but not free. Many colleges require that internships offered thru them give the students a salary. We were told "You pay a lot of money for your child to attend our school and we feel it only fair that you and your child get compensated for that education". Seems only right to me.
Hi there,
I was waiting to see if another stamp company would come forward and speak but I don't see any here so I thought I would chime in ! I read Chupa's post and find it very informative and quite sad :(
Chupa and any other DT member, if you were unhappy with your compensation, did you bring it up to the company owner? Did you ever express how dissatisfied you were with the compensation? Did you express the time you spent vs the pleasure you got out of your creative time? I'm curious to see if this happened and how it turned out. Sometimes, we, as the company owners just don't know what expectations are. It's like a contract, I present to you what my offer is.. you think about it and decide whether or not it is satisfactory. If it is, then wonderful ..you accept. If it isn't you come back with thoughts, and another offer that would satisfy you. I guess I take this a bit personally because I insist on open communication and banter. On my team being happy and satisfied. I have to be honest, if you were on my team and I read this post I would be mortified and blindsided if you didn't come to me first to discuss. Sometimes, as a company owner, we don't know what is involved and need educating and then it is up to us to say, you know what? you're totally right and we will reconfigure the compensation. On the other hand, it is very difficult to monitor what sales come from the designer's blog. While the designer may think they are the cat's meow.. that they bring all this business, that they do the best work etc.. they really don't.. and then it is up to the company owner to say listen, this isn't working out. I'm getting no return on my investment and the relationship needs to end.
The whole thing is a very touchy subject from both perspectives to be honest. And I am hoping that from your post, there will be increased communication between stamp companies and their designers!
Hugs to all
Em
Hi Em, thank you for chiming in! It's commendable that a company owner decided to speak up.
I'll tell you about my experience that turned out to be a big game changer. And I apologize in advance 'cause it may be a lengthy read ;)
My views on DT work didn't solidify until I scored a contact with a huge company. It was my biggest gig yet and I was excited. There was an elaborate contract in place, which I read carefully. The duration of the contract was 1 year.
It wasn't until the first month or two have passed, that I realized the contract was worded very sloppily. There was a lot of additional workload added gradually that was not initially outlined. It was all explained as being a part of the growing strategy, but we had to agree to all of it in order to stay. Well, we pretty much had to stay as leaving before the end of the term was unheard of.
The initially promised steady monthly income coming from various opportunities turned out to be largely based on other people's whim rather than our own effort.
We were asked to create several pieces per month, on top of our regular DT work, and it was said that these would be paid. In reality only a very small percentage of those projects were chosen for use by the third parties and paid for, and one was lucky to get anything accepted during their term, or even be in control of what gets accepted or not.
I didn't see a single $ promised in the contract, while the workload and paperwork kept being added to our already crazy busy schedule. The pace was grueling. The paperwork was tiresome and elaborate. I started to suffer from a return of depression after some months in, I was exhausted, feeling used and underappreciated. We had many long talks about it with my husband, I cried many times.
I raised my opinions with a DT coordinator and we held an extensive email discussion for a while.
All my reasoning outlining discrepancies between the contract and reality was shunned. My suggestions that perhaps there should be a more steady income in place was ridiculed.
In short, the message coming through was that if the company wanted professional paid work to be done for them, they would hire GRAPHIC DESIGNERS. Instead they opted for a bunch of creative individuals to express themselves through art.
I've got to tell you, I was shocked. What a load of bull***t. Graphic designers?? Really?? Since when do these people glue pieces of paper together?
The message was clear and loud. They thought of us as a cheap work force that doesn't have the self appreciation of a skilled worker, and that will gladly accept everything being thrown at them. They disguised themselves as being caring for their Team, and it did look like it for everyone else. Only from the intimacy of the DT position one could see that it's but a mask.
That message as it came through was the last straw, and I decided that I needed to leave. The contact was in place for a year and in case of an early termination, one would have to return all product given to them.
There were perhaps 20 kilos (44 lb) of stuff, I joke you not. They had elaborate contracts in place with sponsors and were all given a crapload. Frankly, I didn't enjoy it much because a lot of it was not aligned with my style, I had little idea how to bite into it, and yet I needed to use it.
I would have no problem whatsoever returning all of it. Except from the fact that it meant sending 20 kg abroad from Australia to US. It was back then over $300 for postage, prior the insurance. Hell, I didn't even have that kind of money. I said I'm physically unable to find the funds to do so and all hell broke loose.
Long story short, I got in touch with the company owner and she waived the costs for me. But the DT coordinator lacked of any compassion and understanding until the end.
It took me a while to recover from that experience. I kept wondering how all of these immensely talented ladies appeared to be on such high from working for them, and not seeing the full picture. There they were almost kissing the feet of the management, and I felt confused and misunderstood.
Ever since then I promised myself that I will only accept positions that I feel 100% comfortable with, and after researching them to the very last detail. I had a couple of gigs afterwards indeed, and they were my well informed and consented choices. I was treated well.
I understood along the lines that I can't battle the establishment alone, but I can at least agree to what I participate in. Funnily enough, it was the small one person businesses where my best experiences were coming from. On average, the bigger the company, the more dirt is being shoved under the carpet.
I was the only one I believe, to ever terminate the contract for that company prematurely. I strongly suspect that my name has been mentioned to the new Teams as they gradually came, as a black sheep in the family, a scar on their speck-less surface.
Never again.
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This is really a horrible story and I completely understand where you are coming from Chupa. There are people like that everywhere we go unfortunately. The lack of empathy and compassion is unacceptable. I don't know what goes on on these teams and you're experience seems scary : (.. no one should cry with something that should make you feel so good.
Again I totally hear you and can't imagine what you went through and I'm glad you ended it early. Why the heck should you be in a place like that. And for you to return the product for $300 in shipping? Insane. Please know and understand that not all design teams work the same way. . Some of us *ahem* not mentioning any names, consider their design teams as their family and would never ever hurt them in such a way. I'm happy you opened this conversation. !
Big hugs and kisses. This is not ok. And if some companies are reading this and are guilty of this then they should really change their ways. Shame on them.
Thank you Em, I appreciate it
I left it all behind a long time ago and I'm in a much better place now!
I know there are *amazing* business owners out there and I had the pleasure to meet many of them.
I do think that if DT's were paid an honest wage for their efforts, it would greatly help reduce the threat of exploitation, because the companies would need to think twice before hiring, and learn respect for their money and someone else's job.
I'm glad that experiences like mine are scarce - but what worries me more these days is not the fact that it does happen, but the reality of the gargantuan size hype created around DT work, that leads us creatives to flock around any morsel thrown at us, abandoning self respect and discarding the worth of our time for the sake of fleeting 'fame'.
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I was on a design team for six months. It was hard to create on demand. My compensation was product to use and a slight discount on additional product. I was told I was creating faster than expected and thank you very much but my services were no longer needed. The company was sold 9 to 12 months later.
I tried to take that experience to create a workshop for my local LSS. I was required to purchase everything, at my cost, for the workshop. This meant searching for bargains over the internet as well as supplies from the store.
As I was creating kits, the workshop was cancelled due to low sign ups. The meetings, design time, product cost, conferring over email with a few trusted pals and I would have been happier doing it as a drop in, volunteer workshop.
Hi there,
While the designer may think they are the cat's meow.. that they bring all this business, that they do the best work etc.. they really don't.. and then it is up to the company owner to say listen, this isn't working out. I'm getting no return on my investment and the relationship needs to end.
The whole thing is a very touchy subject from both perspectives to be honest. And I am hoping that from your post, there will be increased communication between stamp companies and their designers!
Hugs to all
Em
As a consumer, I have to say that the contributions of a talented design team member are one of the big reasons I will purchase. When I see what they've done with a stamp set, I'm encouraged to try it, too. All of those pins on Pinterest? All of the blog postings and gallery submissions? That's the eye candy and advertising that sells me. Without it, I'd probably pass up at least 75 percent of what I buy.
A company or artist may design a fantastic stamp or stamp set, but if they can't show the public how to use it, chances are the sales will reflect it.
In a department store, that's the visual merchandiser's job, and the stylist's job, and the catalog photographer's job. And every one of those jobs receives an actual salary for what they do. The talented design team member does all of the above. It's all advertising.
This is an interesting conversation for sure! I only have experience with being on challenge design teams here, but I can relate to the time involved. Just trying to comment and stay engaged can be a part time job and that doesn't count the time producing, photographing, uploading etc. I really came to appreciate what goes into keeping our daily challenges afloat here and I'm thankful to the many ladies who share the load here. Thanks for sharing your insights with us.
Check the Design Team Call thread here and you will see Justrite is looking for designers.
They are giving the designer the stamps at no charge AND $100 a month in the form of a check .
Designers need to make 5 cards per month so that works out to $20 per card . I think that is fair !
I am sure the best designers will apply .
Their Design Team members need to mail their cards to Justrite in a Post Paid envelope for use in the company displays.
Now will other companies follow Justrite's lead ?
Barbara
__________________ "I have not failed . I've just found 10,000 ways that won't work" --Thomas A. Edison
Check the Design Team Call thread here and you will see Justrite is looking for designers.
They are giving the designer the stamps at no charge AND $100 a month in the form of a check .
Designers need to make 5 cards per month so that works out to $20 per card . I think that is fair !
I am sure the best designers will apply .
Their Design Team members need to mail their cards to Justrite in a Post Paid envelope for use in the company displays.
Now will other companies follow Justrite's lead ?
Barbara
Oh goodie, the tendency is certainly reassuring!
I do love the fact that the company is paying postage fees. It's uncommon.
I'm not sure if they're only accepting US - based peeps, but I assume so. Intl postage is crazy expensive.
(I'm always on the lookout for this bit 'cause I live in Australia)
The monthly payment is very fair if all they need to do is make the cards and mail them out. It works out to $20 per card which (if the card is completed within an hour) makes up for a decent hourly wage.
I understand that quality photos need to be taken but no blog post needed promoting the product. Photos don't take that much time, blogging usually does, so again it's a fair call.
Well done JustRite 8-)
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I'm so glad to have stumbled upon this thread. Chupa ... I have long been one of your fans. Your style is uniquely wonderful, and even though I've commented to you very few times, please know that your DT efforts have made positive impact that you've never realized.
This is true about many creative individuals who adore stamping/papercrafting. Sharing something you love doing brings sweet yet intangible rewards. But ... once your sharing becomes demanded, scheduled by others, uncompensated, costly in materials (such as necessary card stocks, inks, markers, embellishments, etc.) ... the intangible joy becomes so diluted that it's hardly felt at all at some point.
Em, it's great to hear that you honestly want your team to be open & honest with you about their happy journey and the disappointments and/or wishes as well. That's not typically the case from my experiences. Keep those communications open and reap the benefits of a devoted design team.
Readers, I have experienced many of the items Chupa has brought to your attention ... not all of them, but a multitude of them. Miscommunication can be blamed at times. In the case of newly-blossoming companies, the owner can be finding their way thru the stamp-industry-jungle and not realize how many add-ons & changes have been given to the DT. Or maybe they are aware and simply expect that more + even more is okay. Indeed, they receive countless applications for each & evert open position on a team. Finding a new person to fill a team slot is as easy as choosing your favorite from the many many submissions. (You've all heard of the "take your finger out of a bucket of water" problem, right?)
Each team member may have a completely different amount of time to give to creating the minimum required projects. But suddenly discovering that an owner expected 8 items in a given period instead of the first-contracted 4 can put a lot of stress atop shoulders of someone who truly does enjoy the opportunity but is suddenly feeling used/abused on a pretty consistent basis. Or what about the designer who adores more than one style, therefore juggles more than one DT responsibility at a time. Shifts in expectations can cause a creative tidal wave that can overwhelm their other plans ... and their family's plans.
I have plastic boxes filled with previous works for DT's. That's okay, as I'm visually intrigued and it allows me to revisit folds, styles, & other visual reminders. But it's also sad, knowing that many of those items were created with the expectation of monetary compensation yet were never chosen after going above & beyond the minimum requirements. It all begins to add to one's desire to break "free". And so ... many people do just that. I'm SO glad that I did and have reached the place where I feel truly comfy, still challenged, and very happy.
I'll remain one of your fans, Chupa! I'm so glad you opened this discussion via your post, and that you're golden with having it shared here to further broaden the knowledge of stampy readers. (((hugs))) from Texas!
Thank you Bev, for your kindness and an extremely well written personal account! I'm humbled.
I've been revisiting this subject over and over again, in retrospection. I've been called names for speaking up, and downgraded to an uneducated, spit covered SAHM with a huge ego problem, by a bunch of haters. The taboo is well established, and we've been gradually ground into thinking that the talent we lend to paper crafting companies, so that they can grow off it, all the hard work we're doing for them, is not deserving a fair treatment.
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I definitely have not read all of the comments here, but I did read the blog post linked at the beginning.
It sounds to me that without Design Team Members, many of the small stamping companies would not be feasible. Maybe that's what has to happen. In this day and age, it is difficult for a mom and pop company to survive. Look at how the "big box stores" have squeezed out the little guys. Who here doesn't know of a scrapbooking store in their area that closed? An independent pharmacy that no longer exists? A mom and pop hardware store that closed?
In part, it is because the big guys have an advertising budget, and the small guys don't.
The small stamp companies evidently can't afford to advertise. Perhaps if they paid their Design Team Members, they would go bankrupt. If that is the case, then they just can't afford to make it in today's market.
But, as long as people want to be on design teams for free, they will continue to survive.
Im guessing that these artists could apply to one of the big companies, and design projects for their catalogs, but that might require a move, hiring daycare, etc.
Everything has give and take. I am a recently retired math teacher. I got paid for a 36 1/2 hour week. I did not get paid for the 20+ hours a week I spent at home grading papers, making up tests, calling parents, etc. it was a choice I made to be a better teacher, but I later realized I robbed my kids lives. My grown son says his biggest memory of me is sitting at the table grading papers. ��
My point is that we all make choices as to how we spend our time. If we don't want to do it, and it isn't rewarding for us, then we need to find something else.
I definitely have not read all of the comments here, but I did read the blog post linked at the beginning.
It sounds to me that without Design Team Members, many of the small stamping companies would not be feasible. Maybe that's what has to happen. In this day and age, it is difficult for a mom and pop company to survive. Look at how the "big box stores" have squeezed out the little guys. Who here doesn't know of a scrapbooking store in their area that closed? An independent pharmacy that no longer exists? A mom and pop hardware store that closed?
In part, it is because the big guys have an advertising budget, and the small guys don't.
The small stamp companies evidently can't afford to advertise. Perhaps if they paid their Design Team Members, they would go bankrupt. If that is the case, then they just can't afford to make it in today's market.
But, as long as people want to be on design teams for free, they will continue to survive.
Im guessing that these artists could apply to one of the big companies, and design projects for their catalogs, but that might require a move, hiring daycare, etc.
Everything has give and take. I am a recently retired math teacher. I got paid for a 36 1/2 hour week. I did not get paid for the 20+ hours a week I spent at home grading papers, making up tests, calling parents, etc. it was a choice I made to be a better teacher, but I later realized I robbed my kids lives. My grown son says his biggest memory of me is sitting at the table grading papers. ��
My point is that we all make choices as to how we spend our time. If we don't want to do it, and it isn't rewarding for us, then we need to find something else.
Just as a side note to your above comment, which I know is completely off topic. Are you talking about Michael's Craft store and Hobby Lobby??
These two big box stores have nothing compared to stamp companies on the internet. The small independent stamp/scrap internet companies have a way bigger stock of stamps, paper and other crafting needs than these 2 stores do. With these independent stores there is way better costumer service and delivery is fast. If anything, internet shopping put the 3rd big box store out of business ....Archivers.
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I was talking about big box stores in general.
Lowe's and Home Depot versus the little hardware store my husband used to love.
Walgreens, CVS, Rite Aid versus an independent pharmacist.
In my area, we have Michaels and AC Moore, and despite the huge variety in a nearby scrapbook store, it closed.
Honestly, I'm thinking that Stampin Up!, Close To My Heart, and a couple of others (can't think of them right now) are the big guys in the stamping world. I'm not saying they are big box, but they are big compared to some. I may be wrong, but as far as I know, the big companies don't have the design teams. Correct me if I'm wrong. These companies do have a huge variety, as well as great customer service.
I'm definitely not trying to start an argument here. Just asking an observation.
The Truth About Design Teams
