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(first off I just want to say it cracks me up that a TAC demo was selling cards made with Stampin' Up!) :mrgreen:
I checked the backs of these SU-stamped cards sold at my local coffee shop, and they had a TAC demo's sticker with name and contact info on them. What should I do? Call her and tell her she is in violation, since she may not know? Better to turn her in anonymously? Tell the owner that it is illegal and hope she passes it on?
What would you do? I plan on doing something, just not sure what. I'm not the type to sit by while people break rules. :mad:
__________________ Lyssa Griffin Zwolanek, Gold EliteSong of My Heart Stampers14-time incentive trip earner
PS--forgot to add I hope that TAC demos will weigh in here. I'm assuming everyone personally would want to know if they were in violation of copyright laws, so would want someone to let them know?
__________________ Lyssa Griffin Zwolanek, Gold EliteSong of My Heart Stampers14-time incentive trip earner
Oh, thanks! I never thought to reporting it to TAC. Do you think they'd actually get involved though or just consider it a matter between SU and the TAC demo?
__________________ Lyssa Griffin Zwolanek, Gold EliteSong of My Heart Stampers14-time incentive trip earner
1) I would call her personally because TAC allows this with their images (we can sell anything we make anywhere...) so she very likely doesn't know better.
2) See...there are many of us that enjoy both TAC and SU products!!
3) Hopefully she had some TAC stamped cards in there too!
Yep, I know many people are fans of both! I like the stamper sayings set (haven't seen a catalog in ages)--is it still available? And could I get it wood mounted because I DETEST unmounted?
__________________ Lyssa Griffin Zwolanek, Gold EliteSong of My Heart Stampers14-time incentive trip earner
I didn't think you could sell cards in a store! Shows what I know!!! Personally I like TAC stamps and the way they are mounted. I only have one set but love the acrylic.
Will doing "something" about this make someone's life better? Will it make the world a better place? Will it prevent human suffering? If not, maybe the negative energy could be put to better use. This is not a flame--just a thought.
Will doing "something" about this make someone's life better? Will it make the world a better place? Will it prevent human suffering? If not, maybe the negative energy could be put to better use. This is not a flame--just a thought.
I don't think it's negative energy. It's just a rule that needs to be followed. And not some silly little demo agreement. It's COPYRIGHT law...sorta big time, you know?
Like it or not it's SU's policy for EVERYONE. I'm sure that's what sends some people to TAC, they have more liberal policies. Something for everyone...
Personally, IF I were going to get involved (probably wouldn't though! ;) ) I would not contact SU just for the simple fact that the seller may not be aware of SU's policies. Just like someone else mentioned above - TAC angels can sell their TAC-made stuff freely and they just may not know any different. It's possible. So that's why I wouldn't get SU involved yet. I suppose I would not get the coffee shop owner involved either. They are probably clueless on this subject. So IF you feel like you MUST get involved, then maybe a polite NON-snarky email to the artist just to inform them "in case they didn't know". (You mentioned their contact info was on the back). Shouldn't be insulting in anyway, maybe go at it from the perspective of assuming they just simply didn't know the rules. Be NICE!
unless you were asking if you have to use the 'angel policy' SU! stamp, in which case the answer is yes you have to use that stamp on the back of the card to identify it as copyrighted by SU!
Thanks, I make cards and friends, co-workers, family, etc. buy them. They ask that I carry them with me so that they can pick up a quick card instead of running to the store. Keeps me in my habit..
No permanent location... just a traveling stampin junkie!
__________________ BW's Mom
aka TT Stampin' for the fun of it...
Personally, (and this comes from my experience in working in a municipal office) I wonder why SU! has a policy they can't come close to completely enforcing AND it doesn't affect their bottomline positively.
People get upset that others aren't following the rules; people get upset that SU! doesn't enforce them enough. It seems to me SU! should just be the 'good guy' and annouce you can sell cards you hand create with their 'angel policy' stamp.
As a potential customer, it is a turn off to me to see these kinds of threads.
I do craft shows and see the SU policy broken all the time. I think I've seen SU things at every craft show I've done this season (when I "scope out" the other vendors). No one has ever had the little angel policy stamp on their things, but neither are they SU demos. I just choose to stay out of it because I figure I'm not SU's police, and I know that no matter how hard I try to be kind and polite, it just won't come across that way.
When I do FunShops as a TAC demo, that's when I do my angel policy education without mentioning any other companies by name--just give examples of various angel policies that I have come across. I tell them to be sure and research before selling if they aren't using TAC stamps. ;-)
Anyway...I probably wouldn't get involved in the coffee shop situation either...
__________________ Diane H.
TAC Demonstrator #1484/Manager, Smilin' Stampers My TAC SiteMy BLOG
I think I would let the shop owner know, just a very informal, just so you know some companies have policies, yadda, yadda. Just because I wouldn't want some poor shop owner to get in trouble. And SU does enforce it. I think the little crafter at a fair without the angel stamp is no who they are concerned with so much as someone doing tons of cards a week and selling them in a store.
Now, I would have to venture a guess that the TAC demo knows. That is one of the differences you girls frequently talk about (the angel policy). My guess is just that she feels like, well, what will they do to me? Can't take away my demoship ;) Still I would send her an FYI email and just let her know.
I don't necesarily advocate reporting everyone who breaks a law (otherwise I'd be on the phone all the time reporting speeders, including myself!) but in this case not only is the TAC demo violating copyright law, she is inducing the coffe shop owner to violate copyright law. Where the actions of one person have a potentially significant negative negative impact on another person, I think it's appropriate to say something.
I would start with the TAC demo, explaining the SU angel policy and its limitations. If that did not work, I would tell the coffee store owner that he/she faces a potential action by Stampin' Up! if they continue to allow someone to sell merchandise in their store inviolation of US Copyright law.
I also think doing this is fine because the situation is so easy for the TAC demo to fix -- she just needs to make sure she only uses TAC stamps (or other stamps from copanies with an angel policy similar to TAC's) on the cards she sells through the coffee shop.
Will doing "something" about this make someone's life better? Will it make the world a better place? Will it prevent human suffering? If not, maybe the negative energy could be put to better use. This is not a flame--just a thought.
I couldn't have said this better myself!
__________________ ~Valerie~ My Altered States "If you cant be a good example then at least be a horrible warning."
here's what I decided to do--email her first, then if nothing happens in a couple of weeks, tell the shop owner so she can protect herself by removing the cards. I really like the gal and I'd hate to see her get in trouble just because someone figured they wouldn't get caught.
As far as standing by when others do wrong--no wonder our world is in such a rotten state, if that's the opinion of the majority here. :(
__________________ Lyssa Griffin Zwolanek, Gold EliteSong of My Heart Stampers14-time incentive trip earner
Maybe the cards were there on a temporary basis? Like how I was asked by a dog salon to make some dog-themed cards so that they can sell them during their 10-days holiday festival bonanza. I didn't get to make them but I'm thinking this arrangement doesn't infringe the copyright a la craft fair??
I don't know how to do quotes so I'll do it this way...
"As far as standing by when others do wrong--no wonder our world is in such a rotten state, if that's the opinion of the majority here."
I'm an educator and a pastor's wife. Believe me, I don't stand by on a lot of things. I have to be careful because people consider me pretty outspoken. I just choose my battles by the importance of who is getting hurt and how they are getting hurt. One can only choose to "fight" so many things, and violation of SU's policy at craft fairs is not one I've chosen to fight.
I'm sure the other gals on the board here are like that as well. I wouldn't say that not turning in this demo causes the world to be in a rotten state. Now if I knew she were doing other serious illegal activities I'm sure I'd not stand idly by.
HTH you understand my position. :-)
__________________ Diane H.
TAC Demonstrator #1484/Manager, Smilin' Stampers My TAC SiteMy BLOG
The shop owner is doing nothing wrong. By going to the shop owner you risk damaging a relationship between the 2 people and at the very least adding stress and anxiety to someone's life for no helpful reason. Life is already so full of things we have to deal with. Why add one more?
The shop owner is doing nothing wrong. By going to the shop owner you risk damaging a relationship between the 2 people and at the very least adding stress and anxiety to someone's life for no helpful reason. Life is already so full of things we have to deal with. Why add one more?
If she is selling copyrighted material w/o permission, she IS doing something wrong. She would be the one accepting the money for a copyrighted image. There is no damaging a relationship if letting her know is done respectfully.
I, personally probably would not BUT to tell the OP that she shouldn't or it's not a big deal is not true. If the shop owner is told just by saying, you know I'm not sure if you are aware of this and the girl who made the cards may not know since the company she is a demo for has different polices but....
I think to not tell the shop owner is unethical. If SU were to go after someone, I think they would be more likely to go after a store (seen as the "bigger fish"). If someone were going to park in a spot where they could get a ticket or get towed and I knew it, I would feel obligated to say hey, find another place to park.
The shop owner is doing nothing wrong. By going to the shop owner you risk damaging a relationship between the 2 people and at the very least adding stress and anxiety to someone's life for no helpful reason. Life is already so full of things we have to deal with. Why add one more?
Actually, the shop owner is doing something wrong, although I am sure they don't know it. They are allowing her to sell products that violate copyright laws, which also makes them guilty. As a shop owner, they should be careful in what they allow to be sold in their store. SU's Angel Policy doesn't say "you can't sell items made with SU products in a retail establishment, unless you don't know any better." I think if I was the store owner, I would be more upset that someone knew I was breaking a law and didn't say anything, letting me go on selling them and possibly get fined or worse. Just because SU doesn't enforce this consistently doesn't mean they don't enforce it.
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I wouldn't do anything.
And as we all know how much work that goes into making each card, it's highly unlikely that this person is ever going to get rich by selling her cards anyway. And Su doesn't loose on this. She has bought the stamps from them.
As far as standing by when others do wrong--no wonder our world is in such a rotten state, if that's the opinion of the majority here. :(
I usually stay out of these types of posts, but I just wanted to say that because I would choose to not REPORT the stamper to SU! or TAC doesn't mean that I am contributing to making this world a rotten place.
My first assumption isn't that the person is purposely breaking a law. We're talking about stamping here, not selling drugs on the corner (which every American would be expected to know this activity was illegal). I would contact the stamper, and educate her... "did you know..." Then, because I expect that people will do the right thing when they're presented with it, I would expect her to take the initiative.
As far as standing by when others do wrong--no wonder our world is in such a rotten state, if that's the opinion of the majority here. :(
Well, I do think there's a big difference between getting involved in something that is causing harm to another person/people and ratting out someone who's selling a few cards. I don't think SU is going to go broke because of her. As another poster said, I don't call the police every time I see someone speeding or double-parked. You did, after all, ask what we would do.
Ldies - SU's Copyright on these images has not been infringed by these cards being sold in this store.
SU has a policy that their images may not be sold in a permanent retail location and another policy that you must use their angel policy stamp on any items using their images that are for sale.
...as this person is a TAC demo and that company has a different policy governing the sale of hand stamped items, I would suggest that she does not know she cannot do the same with her SU stamps. If you must get involved then be nice and call her and let her know about the SU policy and then let her decide if she wishes to remove the cards from the permanent retail location where they are being sold without the angel stamp on the back - altho it might be there underneath her TAC sticker?
...if she doesn't do so within a resonable amount of time then I guess you can contact SU and let them know about this violation of their policy - but do you really, really think that they will take action against this person just because she is selling cards in a permanent location? Or would you prefer to hassle the retailer that is trying to provide a nice service to their customers and has no knowledge about SU policy?
In order for SU to take legal action against this person they would have to have someone representing the company who is willing to testify in court on their behalf, physically go to this location, purchase a card and document the whole procedure. I just don't think they are going to do that - call me silly, but I just don't think they will.
I realize this is a rule that is being broken, and unfair to those who play by the rules, but in the long run is it going to be worth the upset and bad feelings?
J
btw: I reported a demo selling current merchandise on ebay to SU last year - sent the page links and everything. She is still a demo, and still occasionally selling current merchandise on ebay. Maybe this experience has made me a little cynical?
...and let's not forget all the demo's who are getting burned on their costs for sending in the napkins etc to help out SU with a (alleged) copyright infringement issue.
I work for a local company and am responsible for maintaining its policy manual. We write the policies in a very broad manner that will cover all possible types of a particular infringement. But, we also clearly state that it is our right to enforce the rules as we see fit. Those aren't the exact words but that's the gist.
MY FEELING is that SU has likely written their Angel Policy in a similar way. By making the "violations" very broad, they are covering every type of copyright infringement. It is always up to them to prosecute or not prosecute. I DO NOT speak for them corporately, but, it is MY OPINION that they probably wouldn't take a crafter to court for selling a few cards without an angel stamp. Public sentiment would not be positive and it would be very costly. However, if Susie Cardmaker and her 25 friends mass produced hundreds of cards and sold at a retail chain, that would be a big no-no in everyone's mind and they would definitely get prosecuted.
It would be impossible to have a policy that says something like ..it's okay to sell 6 cards at the local mall kiosk but you can't sell packages of ten at Michael's. They make it known that they have the policy. Life is really full of grey areas and it is up to each individual to be stand up and follow rules. Personally, I personally will follow SU's Angel Policy to the letter. But, if I were to walk into the coffee shop and see cards made with SU stamps, it's highly unlikely I would give it much thought; however, if that same person were supplying all local business with handmade cards, then I'd make a call.
I am not a demo for either su or tac and I am NOT looking for a arguement, but IN MY OPINION, I dont understand why people get their feathers all ruff up over this things and cant not mind their own business. If she is doing something wrong she will get caught, as the saying goes.... what comes around goes around. When you signed your contract did it bind you to be judge and jury? Will it make you a better person to tell on someone? Will it change anything? Ask yourself have you played by the rules all the time? There is probably hundreds on people doing to same thing but on the down low, You cant stop everyone all the time. Life is way to short and precious to waste time on this. Put your energy into your business, family and friends- and be the better person. Remember their is a war going on and soliders and citzens dying, Put that negativiy to use and send a solider, friend, or loved one a card, Thanksgving just passed - be thankful for all you have and not what someone else may or may not be doing-
Happy Holidays!
TAC demo selling SU cards!!! in coffee shop
